[ SECRET POST #2855 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2855 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

IP logging is on, by the way!

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 071 secrets from Secret Submission Post #408.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[likeadeuce]

Or because none of the women in the fandom actually interact with each other, which is a widely-observed phenomenon hence the Bechdel test.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah…that's a huge issue for me. Even something like MCU which has quite a number of female characters. How many of them interact at all?

The best example I can think of is Jane and Darcy.

Pepper and Natasha do a bit in Iron Man 2. But for the most part there's very little to go on.

[rosefyre]

Natasha and Maria Hill in Winter Soldier, though I think that's usually in a larger group - but they are actually interacting.

Jane and Darcy in both Thor movies, Sif and Frigga a little in Thor 2, I think, Frigga and Jane in Thor 2, Sif a little with Jane and Darcy in Thor, but again, larger group.

Pepper and Natasha in Iron Man 2, yes.

Um.

Guardians of the Galaxy has Gamora and Nebula, though I don't know how much they're actually alone. They do interact though.

That may be it? At least, in the movies. If you count Agents of SHIELD, you get more.

[(Anonymous)]

In a group, it does provide some interesting perspective on how they interact, but it makes it difficult for me to use that as a basis for shipping compared to a one on one conversation where they're specifically talking to each other rather than addressing a large swathe of people.

It's just hard to build a relationship off that because they're playing off the men as much as each other and so it doesn't give you insight into their relationship to a particular person.

[rosefyre]

True. Of course, I'm of the "make me believe it" school of shipping, which basically means that pairings are nowhere near the most important basis for a fic for me, and I will not choose not to read a fic based on pairing (though sometimes I will choose to read a fic because I especially like a pairing). I will happily read anything, as long as the author is good. So if it's two characters who never interact in canon? That's cool. Two characters who hate each other? If you can make it work, go for it. Yeah, I have preferred pairings, and there are certainly pairings that are easier to make work, but that doesn't mean I won't read the others.

[brooms]

so, to sum it up, as the ayrt's already pointed out (and i quote):

"But for the most part there's very little to go on."

[rosefyre]

Oh, not gonna argue with that. Of course, one of the primary pairings in Avengers fandom (at least on AO3) is Clint/Coulson, which, dude, they have one interaction in Thor that lasts less than two minutes and that isn't actually about them, it's about Thor not getting the hammer to work. That's it. So, say, Pepper and Natasha's interaction is actually way more...covered.

[brooms]

yes, but Any Two White Guys - http://fanlore.org/wiki/Two_White_Guys - is so common in fandom it's become pretty much accepted without much blinking at this point.

the discussion we're in now started as an analysis of the very, very tiny pocket of femslashers trying to go the same route and being branded as "boring as fuck and think[ing] they're the greatest thing to ever happen to feminism."

[(Anonymous)]

In fairness the problem with this is that slashers are a pretty big group and the people who will ship any male characters together aren't necessarily the same people who are criticizing the lack of raw material for femslash pairings.

I know that I've NEVER understood the basis for Coulson/Anyone (haven't watched Agents of Shield) given that he's such a minor character. Nor things like Stony (talking about MCU only though -- I'm aware the comics are different) since they only have one film together and they really, really don't like each other for a large part of that film. Nor do they seem particularly close afterwards.

I will say, though, that I dislike it when people ship things trying to be "progressive." Shipping isn't progressive. You're not racially tolerant because you ship an interracial ship and you're not an LGBT ally or a super-feminist for shipping slash or femslash. Though people really shouldn't single out femslashers for that since it seems like lots of different fans of pairings will do this.