[ SECRET POST #2860 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2860 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #409.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Ah yes, tumblr (and sometimes US-centric fandom on whatever other platform), where any real dialogue about SJ issues related to discrimination based on race, skin color, ethnicity and heritage in various different countries now or in the past is doomed to fail - unless it's along the party line of how only POC can be victims, only white people are oppressors. And even when some people make great efforts to show that this is neither true today nor has been true in the past, most of the folks who ~care so deeply about SJ will turn around and ignore it entirely or make a clever comment among the lines of ~nice try, but white people can't ever be oppressed, lol!

[(Anonymous)]

Well for Europe it is pretty easy. Generally discrimination against foreigners and poor people. Especially poor foreigners rich foreigners get a pass.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I am a Euro nonnie, and yep, you've nailed it - or at the very least, the basic, underlying sentiment that is the biggest issue today.

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly get feeling that this is probably not that uncommon in America either but for some reason the whole other races are assumed to be poor/poor white people get shit is never really brought up.

Any American input on this? I am kinda working of the film 8 mile for this judgement.

[(Anonymous)]

The US definitely has a how class divide that doesn't get brought up nearly as much as race. When you look at income on wikipedia:

By race[edit]
Asian American : $68,088[1]
Pacific Islands American : $ 58,859[1]
White American : $ 54,857[1] (includes White Hispanics)
Total Population : $ 51,914[1]
Native American : $ 38,806[1]
African American : $ 35,341[1]

Note that White Americans are in the middle. Jews also tend to have a higher than average income. There's definitely a racial component to poverty for, say, black people though.

[(Anonymous)]

That does make sense. I mean I always noticed that Asian Americans are treated entirely different from other minorities in America. The higher income overall would explain that.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Mind you, I recognize this is a fucked up viewpoint, but more or less Asians are considered the "good" minority. They are stereotyped, but generally the stereotype is that they are smarter and hard working. There's some negative things in there as well (bad drivers, obsessive overachievers and so on) but not the kind of things that get them more likely to be randomly stopped/searched/shot.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not a fucked-up viewpoint at all, it's exactly on target. Asian Americans are the "Model Minority." Most of the stereotypes about them are "positive" and they're used as a bludgeon against other minorities ("if racism is an issue, then why are the Asians doing so well, black guy? You must just be lazy and looking for an excuse").

[(Anonymous)]

Full disclosure, I'm not American and still upset that class doesn't seem to be an issue at all when it comes to fandom social justice related talk. Like, yes, being part of one or multiple under-privileged groups ain't fun and it sucks if your chances of having a great career isn't as great as the the chances someone more privileged has. But at the same time someone who's got the chance to go to uni is damn well privileged themselves and should maybe think twice before complaining about how their lot in life is so, so bad when in reality they have it better than most.

[(Anonymous)]

You know how, when you're privileged, it's really, really hard to see it? I think that's why class is rarely talked about in fandom. Being able to participate in fandom at all is a sign that you've got some socioeconomic privilege, and for most people the blinders are gonna be on about that. It's an awful irony.

[(Anonymous)]

Just FYI, that list is for averge U.S. household income and Asians and Pacific Islanders tend to have bigger households/more people bringing in income per household, where the income per person isn't necessarily as high as the numbers suggest. I'm also pretty sure that most of the U.S. Asian and Pacific Island population resides in Hawaii where the cost of living is really high so once again these numbers aren't a very accurate representation of a race-class divide.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm also pretty sure that most of the U.S. Asian and Pacific Island population resides in Hawaii

Not even close. Hawaii is the most Asian state in terms of Asian-Americans as a % of total population, but California, New York, Texas, and New Jersey all have a higher total Asian-American population.

California, in particular, has something like 5.5 million Asian-Americans, which is significantly higher than the total population of Hawaii. Approximately 1 in 3 Asian-Americans lives in California. So you might still be able to argue about cost of living, but it's not going to be an argument about Hawaii.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that's the part I was iffy about and why I added "pretty sure." Glad to see someone actually researched it and provided facts. I wish I could retract that statement about Asians and Hawaii because that is not the issue I wanted to focus on when I wrote that post and now it makes it seem like I'm trying to be "but won't someone think of the Asians in Hawaii?" when I know for a fact that we, the Japanese in particular, have a lot of class privilege here.

My main concern with that list and those numbers is the fact that the person who posted it did not mention it was a list of average U.S. household income. This is very misleading and would be more informative in showing a possible corelation between race and class if they provided an average number of working people per household with the statistics. (Though I guess lists like these are so general that I'm not sure any ammendents to it would help.)

And I just spent forever trying to find statistics for the average number of working people per U.S. household sorted by racial demographic but found nothing and give up because I have to leave soon. But if there is such a list, I bet Pacific Islanders would have more working people per household than Asians and Asians would have slightly more than Whites. Asians having a significantly higher income per person than Pacific Islanders. And taking Asians out of the picture entirely because I acknowledge that we have a lot of class privilege, even the vaguest insinuation that Pacific Islanders might have any sort of privilege over White people is...ignorant, to say the least or for lack of a better word.

This issue deserves more dedicated research and exposition than I'm willing to give it right now and I apologize for any more wrong assumptions I just made, but I think talking about personal experience like this and trying to understand where each person is coming from is a bigger step towards a solution to social and racial inequality than misrepresenting random statistics from Wikipedia and using that to draw conclusions about the status quo.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, absolutely.

And, I think, even if someone were to argue that Asians aren't economically disadvantaged in general, it would be absurdly fallacious to claim that's necessarily a result of some kind of privilege. And it would be absurd to look at that and then say that Asian people don't face any kind of prejudice or that white people don't have privilege that Asians lack. Intersectionality goes both ways, right?

Like you say. Yeah. Asians who are not Pacific Islanders are not really economically disadvantaged, but that's only really a statement on class, not on racial prejudice and privilege. And the kinds of privilege and prejudice that has to do with Asians is probably different than with African-Americans, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.