fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2865 ]

[ SECRET POST #2865 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2865 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Once Upon a Time]

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[Transformers: Prime]

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[Star Trek: The Next Generation]

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[Malcolm Tucker, The Thick of It]

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[Once Upon a Time]

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[Flight Rising]

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08.

[Transformers: Prime]

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09.

[Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 013 secrets from Secret Submission Post #409.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/31/catcalling_what_hollaback_s_viral_video_reveals_about_white_men_and_street.html

well, i'm glad someone found a way to square the circle and figure out a way to keep social justice orthodoxy internally consistent

(i kid, it's a fine article)

I agree--with the root of your joke and with the fact that this is a good article.

I'm sick and tired of idiots on the internet giving men of color a free pass for sexism and homophobia. I went to a "majority minority" high school. No, it wasn't only White Straight Boys being assholes while every other guy was, I don't know, walking around with his fist in the air yelling at racists or whatever the fuck tumblristas think everyone who isn't a White Straight Male does.

Edited 2014-11-07 00:47 (UTC)

My mother, who's white, went to a high school that was and remains majority Hispanic. The program she was in (the math-science magnet program) was and remains majority Asian. She got plenty of creepy dicks hitting on her, because creepy-dickitude is not an ethnicity-linked trait.

Exactly.

"Mu - muuh privilege... is the undeinable explanation"

Why is mainstream internet feminist thought such garabage these days?

Wait, what are you quoting here? I assumed it was the article, but I don't really see that phrase in there.

It's interesting, I guess. But I can't help think it's wrong in the basic premise. I grew up in an almost exclusively white area, and I still heard catcalls. They were no different from any catcalls that I've heard of.

It seems to be, like so many other things, a class divide that's perceived as a racial divide. I grew up near enough to Chicago to spend the day. I never once, that I noticed, got catcalled by someone in a suit, white, black, Asian, or Latino. I did get catcalled by taxi drivers, construction workers, homeless men, teenagers, etc, of any given race. It just so happens that non-whites tend to be lower on the economic totem pole.

The last paragraph of the article does touch on this -"That brings up the unavoidable role subjectivity plays in all this."-, but the author doesn't really elaborate. So, I wonder why she titled the article so if she disagrees with it in the last paragraph.

tl;dr: White men do catcall. Rich people don't.

Edited 2014-11-07 00:56 (UTC)

This is a really good explanation. When I lived in VA Beach I learned really quickly to stay away from the homeless guys. I'd be drying off, enjoying the sun, and some guy would sit next to me on the bench and start talking about random stuff and asking what kind of guys I dated.

Men in suits don't catcall women on the streets. They hire them and then feel them up in the break room, or talk about Hooters girls on the long car trip.

I think this is a great point.

Rich college boys sure do, though.

-lived near a big college town

Very true. College is a very unique circumstance.

"Men of color catcall vocally and visibly on the sidewalk because they have to—not that there’s ever excuse for harassment. They need the “Sexy!” and “Smile!” to create the illusion of dominance in shared public spaces that social constructs and institutional racism have never afforded them control over."

This would probably be more interesting if you didn't see a replication of the exact same thing in countries where these men are the majority and hold institutional power. Look at street harassment in Rome, and compare it to London or Japan.

Or look at groups from cultural backgrounds with less catcalling who don't have institutional privilege in the US.

This is a specific cultural problem, and there are lens outside the kyrarchy that it's worth analyzing the world through.

It seems to me the problem here is that a lot of Americans think only our culture exists. There are a lot of kyrarchies (and actual patriarchies) out there, and they're all a bit different. Hell, there are different ones in the US. I think kyrarchy/patriarchy is the best lens for this--it's just that most people oversimplify what that means.

Edited 2014-11-07 01:11 (UTC)

This is a salient point.

Of course, any female traveler already knows this, so I wonder what kind of homogenous bubble someone has to be in to make the leap of logic that men only catcall (or catcall more than others) because of oppression.

"what kind of homogenous bubble someone has to be in to make the leap of logic that men only catcall (or catcall more than others) because of oppression"

Their own ass, most likely. This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever read.

"Men of color catcall vocally and visibly on the sidewalk because they have to"

They do not HAVE TO catcall. Catcalling is a behavior and behavior is a choice.

Wait...so it is harassment when someone wants to dance with you at a club/party? Why the fuck are you in a club if you don't want people to come up and try to dance with you?

Some people go to clubs with their friends, and dance with their friends. And lots of people still want to choose who to interact with even though they have the nerve to be in a public space.

nayrt

And lots of people still want to choose who to interact with even though they have the nerve to be in a public space.

I agree, but does that necessarily make harassment a good lens with which to view things like what we're talking about here?

If someone keeps trying to dance with you, you want them to stop, and they keep doing it--or if they keep staring at you, et cetera--that is harassment. It's a spectrum. I think the problem is a lot of us hear "harassment" and think it has to be major.

Thanks for the response! That pretty much addresses what I was asking about, and it seems like a reasonable position to take.

Re: White men don't catcall, they harrass in other ways

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-07 01:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: White men don't catcall, they harrass in other ways

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-07 01:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: White men don't catcall, they harrass in other ways

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-07 02:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: White men don't catcall, they harrass in other ways

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-07 03:44 (UTC) - Expand

Funnily enough most people are not mind readers. And when they see you in a club will assume you are there to dance (often with other ppl). You know like most people at a club.

Asking if I'd like to dance, not necessarily verbally, because music, but looking me in the face with eye contact, is not harassment. Wordlessly grabbing me by the waist from behind is something else.

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