[ SECRET POST #2890 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2890 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.



__________________________________________________



09.











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #413.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Slash pairings becoming canon

[(Anonymous)]

Where it's not set up as will-they-or-won't-they at all, or anything?

Don't the people who ship it actually see it as a will they/won't they, though, and think the only reason they won't is homophobia or whatever? It seems like a lot of the time with popular slash pairings, if you took the exact same dialogue/behavior from one of the guys and gave it to a woman, people would definitely be expecting them to get together, but because it's two guys, they never will. Which is bullshit, if that's the case.

I mean, Mulder and Scully eventually got together and they didn't really act any different than a lot of popular slash couples. (Although a lot of people hated that that happened so maybe it's not the best example!)

Gay characters (and romances) treated like straight characters (and romances) is basically all I want. Right now it seems like when a character is openly gay from the beginning, they're The Gay Character and that's it it while characters assumed to be straight have other aspects to their personality, which is unfair. So on a certain level, "assumed to be straight all these years and then gets together with a dude" is kind of appealing because that way he actually got character development beyond his sexuality, but ideally he would be a fully developed character while also being openly gay (or bi or whatever non-straight orientation) from the start.

It is, to me, really strange to expect there to be a show that actually plays out like slash fans expect shows airing now to play out.

What exactly do you mean? Characters who haven't shown any interest in each other getting together out of nowhere? I think in a lot of cases the point is that the fans think they DO seem interested in each other and that's why they ship it in the first place although of course at this point it's basically all subtext. Do you think for the pairing to get together eventually the writers would have to be more overt about their intentions? It seems like they can just barely hint at it with straight couples and everyone automatically knows what's up, but with gay ones they have to actually come out and say "they are gay, they like each other" or something. It just seems weird to me.

Re: Slash pairings becoming canon

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, Mulder and Scully eventually got together and they didn't really act any different than a lot of popular slash couples. (Although a lot of people hated that that happened so maybe it's not the best example!)

I'm one of those people, so this may sound strange. But frankly, even if I didn't like them as a couple, I think that was always an aspect of the way their relationship was presented. I mean, show me a slash couple where in the first episode one character strips down to his underwear and asks the second character to closely exam his sexy, bare back in the romantic candlelight, and I'll grant you that it's the same kind of thing.

I think in a lot of cases the point is that the fans think they DO seem interested in each other and that's why they ship it in the first place although of course at this point it's basically all subtext

But I guess that's my point: the way that fans see slash relationships as romantic relies on totally different cues and indicators than the way that romantic relationships that are intended to be perceived that way are written. Which isn't to say that slash fans are doing it 'wrong', but more that it doesn't necessarily make sense to expect that the creators of media will suddenly start writing explicitly romantic relationships in the way that fans see romantic relationships, just because they're writing gay characters now. Even where het romances are relatively subtle, I think the subtle cues are still different from the cues that slash fans use to read relationships.

It seems like they can just barely hint at it with straight couples and everyone automatically knows what's up, but with gay ones they have to actually come out and say "they are gay, they like each other" or something. It just seems weird to me.

I think that's mostly a problem with clumsy writing, tbh, more than anything else. and I agree that the writing of stuff like this is frequently quite clumsy. But I would suspect it will improve. Similarly, writing someone as The Gay Character is just bad fucking writing, and I am pretty damn sure it's going to change.

Re: Slash pairings becoming canon

[(Anonymous)]

"But I guess that's my point: the way that fans see slash relationships as romantic relies on totally different cues and indicators than the way that romantic relationships that are intended to be perceived that way are written. Which isn't to say that slash fans are doing it 'wrong', but more that it doesn't necessarily make sense to expect that the creators of media will suddenly start writing explicitly romantic relationships in the way that fans see romantic relationships, just because they're writing gay characters now. Even where het romances are relatively subtle, I think the subtle cues are still different from the cues that slash fans use to read relationships."

not anon you replied to but...

I disagree, for the most part. I genuinely believe that if you took away gender completely and presented a het pairing before it is realized in the show, and one of many popular slash pairings, you (general you) wouldn't be able to tell which one was the het. I think the cues ARE often the same, and they even COULD potentially be meant to be homoerotic - but even if they aren't, I think a lot of it comes down to straight bias. And hey, I get that, most characters are probably going to be in straight relationships, just as most real life people are - but gay relationships as nuanced and uncertain as straight relationships is desperately lacking in media.

Re: Slash pairings becoming canon

[(Anonymous)]

I just have to disagree, I guess. It just does not seem to me that cues are anywhere close to the same. But, you know, it's probably something that we're not going to resolve here.

& as I said below, I don't think straight relationships are actually all that nuanced and uncertain in media most of the time