[ SECRET POST #2917 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2917 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #417.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

And that's understandable, but "motivated by a man" isn't wrong itself. It's something that can be done wrong and something that can be done right. And "it happens a lot" shouldn't disqualify it, because it's a real and true part of the human experience.

The fact it happens so often is something that should be criticized, but a character shouldn't be tossed aside just because it's a part of their development. They should be judged based on the whole, not just on a part.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's inherently wrong, that it can never be done well, that it doesn't happen IRL and I have nothing against it isolation. Hell, Riza is among my favorite characters on FMA, and I only ever saw the first anime.

What I'm saying is that fictional women are disproportionally shown to be motivated by their relationship to a man, while fictional men get to have much wider pool of reasons for doing things. It's like the Bechdel Test: the point isn't if this or this film passes it, the point is that the sheer number of films that FAIL tells us something about how the film industry at large perceives women.

The fact that so many of our most popular stories tell us that women do things because Some More Important Guy is her boyfriend/brother/childhood friend who she promised to marry, tells us that a lot of our storytellers believe that men are the driving motivation for any important decision in women's lives.

[likeadeuce]

I don't think anybody's disagreeing with you? But I'd gently suggest that the Hawkeye and Mustang relationship, in the mangaverse in particular which is what the secret was about, is a very specific thing and I'm not sure how you can be arguing from a position of knowledge if you only know the first anime story. So making generalizations about how women are portrayed in Hollywood film isn't particularly relevant to the conversation about this particular story/relationship, which isn't from a Hollywood film in any case.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I think I started a different conversation than the one you're having - sorry about that. What I originally replied to wasn't about Hawkeye at all, but the statement that "people talk about women being motivated by men as if that was a BAD thing". I (obviously) think that that is a relevant criticism, but (obviously) one that is fruitless for judging individual stories. Far be it from me to deny that the storyline has been pulled off excellently in a lot of stories. It's just been getting kind of old for the last two hundred years.

[likeadeuce]

No problem, I get what you're saying and sorry if we crossed wires. I just meant to say that it frustrates me to see the frequency with which it's used to critique this particular storyline.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh I agree with you, I just think characters should be judged individually and not based on a trend, even if the trend is something that's worth being criticized.

[(Anonymous)]

Haha, I don't think I've ever held it against my enjoyment of a story in its own, since it clearly can be done as well or as poorly as any other storyline. I just like to point out the trends, too.