[ SECRET POST #2919 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2919 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones]


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03.
[Father Ted]


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04.
[Dragon Age]


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05.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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06.
[Sleepy Hollow]


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07.
[Full Moon o Sagashite]


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08.
(Christmas with the Kranks)


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09.
[Cary Elwes]









Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 019 secrets from Secret Submission Post #417.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think DA:O is a brilliant game, but I agree, its main plot is pretty generic Tolkien-esque fantasy (though I think some of the subplots are more developed and interesting). DA2, while obviously being rushed, was much more original and unique in narrative, though I think the plot could've been worked with a bit to make it flow better (and there was no reason why the game had to span a decade, and certainly no in-game indication that time ever went by).

That being said, disagree totally about the characters. I'd agree Morrigan is terrible and unlikable (but a brilliant character nonetheless), but Alistair? Leliana? Don't get how they could merit hate, they are amazing.

As for morally gray decisions, I think there are some, and theoretically I want more but I actually get annoyed when there's not a "right" answer. I hated solving the dwarf quest, because one guy was obvious a psycho, but a better ruler, and the other was nice but a terrible ruler. But then again, choices like who to put on the throne are much more ambiguous, there's not really a good or evil option (unless you execute Alistair or something)

[(Anonymous)]

I loved Morrigan (I agree that she's an amazing character and probably one of the best female characters in video games imo) but I've never hated a character more than I hated Leliana. Even Fenris was more tolerable - I've always been pro-mages.

Otherwise I agree with you.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I loved Morrigan, too, I just thought she was a terrible person. She literally got plus affection for making all the "evil" choices, and minus affection for doing anything good.

Why'd you hate Leliana? I don't really get it. The first time I thought she was bland, but the second time I realized she was amazing. I didn't like her religious fervor but I always hardened her anyway, and don't think she ever held any of the more oppressive/judgmental views of the Chantry anyway. Loved her stories, her happy charm, and especially her song.

[(Anonymous)]

I like Morrigan and Leliana but I see why they get hate. As for me, I hate Alistair, but then I also hate Garrus so I guess I'm doing this Bioware thing wrong. At least I had the option to kill them. Wish I can do the same with Sera.

[(Anonymous)]

wh

whhhhhhhhh

wghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I think DA:O is a brilliant game, but I agree, its main plot is pretty generic Tolkien-esque fantasy (though I think some of the subplots are more developed and interesting).

About 80% of what's described as Tolkien-esque really isn't once you scratch away the superficial, including the DA franchise (especially the DA franchise.)

[(Anonymous)]

Jesus, thank you. Calling something "Tolkien-esque" is usually a really shallow interpretation.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Yeah, I've not played Inquisition but I think Tolkien would have a big problem with the grey morality, theology, and grimdark of DA:O and DA2. Tolkien was just as moralistic as Lewis, if less polemic. The grey morality of the protagonist is D&D referencing Moorcock and the New Wave referencing more pulpy Lieber, Howard, and Burroughs (fun fact, Moorcock got his start doing Tarzan fanfic).

The theology of the fade is an old folklore trope filtered through Lovecraft (Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, if you can tolerate the implicit racism), filtered through Dungeons and Dragons. Bioware previously used the idea of human ambition trespassing into divinity in NWN:SoU, which became a central point of Obsidian's NWN2. DA lacks the everything and the kitchen sink syncretism of D&D that, at one point, treated the gods of Lankhmar and Finland equally as game mechanics. Religion in DA feels a bit shallow all around, both in terms of what characters believe in the game and how you end up interacting with theology as a game mechanic.

Grimdark is the current fashion and also owes a debt to the New Wave.

Tolkien certainly would have a big problem with the last act of DA2 being a shitty allegory for religious/political conflict and terrorism.

[(Anonymous)]

I think there is a distinction, even if it's largely a formal one (especially given the huge roles that in particular Moorcock played in both) between the New Wave and the kind of roguish fantasy adventure you're talking about. And I think the relationship between what you could call mainstream modern fantasy, Tolkien, sword and sorcery, and D&D is slightly more complicated than that.

Modern fantasy I would argue is formed out of the collision between sword & sorcery revival as mediated through D&D, and epic fantasy that was intentionally meant to replicate Tolkien. And I think that's what people are referencing when they talk about Tolkien-esque fantasy, so I'm not sure the term is entirely wrong even if it rarely resembles Tolkien's actual work all that much.

But other than that right on

[(Anonymous)]

I suppose it is pretty superficial, but after reading enough fantasy novels and playing enough videogames, it does get pretty tiresome going through the elven forests with the pretty elves and their bows and arrows, the dwarven mines (including abandoned ones in which ancient evil lurks!), and banding together all your fantastical races to fight a race of evil monsters and their evil boss.

And I disagree (I think you said it somewhere downthread), Origins is pretty damn straight good vs. evil. The darkspawn are evil and the Warden is good. You can play an "antihero", sure, but the game doesn't really encourage that (you get actively punished for it because it you say, kill the elves because the werewolves want them dead, you lose an ally in the war).

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, all of this. Origins might have a fairly generic storyline, but the execution made it shine for me. I can understand not liking all the characters - my favourite is Zevran, who's definitely not for everybody - but not liking any of them? Not even Alistair? Not even the dog? Harsh. I thought they were a brilliant group.

But yeah, picking a ruler for Orzammar was annoying. Why is my Warden even being listened to, he's an elf whose only qualification is that he drank some monster blood and didn't die. He uses shady forbidden magic and is sleeping with a guy who tried to assassinate him. Do not let him help to choose the new king of anywhere.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes! The dwarf quest is anything but black & white. In my first play-through I helped the nice guy and really regretted it later. On the other hand I don't like handing him over and having him killed by the psycho, because yikes! But in the end it might be better for the dwarven society.

And I also agree on Morrigan. She's not likable but I think she's written really well. Definitely my favourite character from Origins.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I found Alistair to be generally annoying for some reason, and Leliana never registered to me as anything but bland. Morrigan was the most interesting character in the game, but she's basically a horrible person.

To be fair I did bail before I finished the game, so if anything really exciting happened near the end I missed it. I also notice that everyone keeps talking about "hardening" characters and I never picked up on that or how you do it... maybe it makes them more interesting? I assume it's something you do really late, because I did max out everyone's approval.

Yeah, I would peg picking the ruler as more of a gray option, but quests that stick out in my mind would be the elves vs. werewolves storyline... kill the elves, kill the werewolves, or don't kill anyone? The "correct" option is nearly always the option that gets you more allies in the war against the Darkspawn. I felt Mass Effect was really the same way (especially the third one)... the point is to collect allies to defeat the ultimate evil, so why would you stab yourself in the foot?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

You can harden both Leliana and Alistair - it involves doing their personal quests, after which they have a bit of a personality crisis. Telling Leliana that she was meant to be a roguish adventurer and not a Chantry girl will make her more or less stop talking about the Chantry, and will have different responses in certain situations and some different character banter. Same with Alistair, telling him to not be so dopey and rely on himself instead of other people will make him toughen up a bit.

It's not super noticeable changes, but it can affect the ending. For example, if Alistair is hardened, he make a better king, and Leliana will wear her armor at the ceremony instead of her Chantry robes. They will also agree to do threesomes and be willing to keep up the relationship even if you or Alistair get married to Anora at the end.

I think it's kind of an interesting addition, though semi-impossible to know about if you haven't read any guides. Kind of branches out their personalities imo