[ SECRET POST #2944 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2944 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #421.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think there's a difference between "what an awesome villain, what a thoroughly evil character," and "flawless queen everyone should be like her what a feminist icon" yknow

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

But the problem is that then the argument becomes about how much people actually talk about male characters along the lines of A as opposed to B, and how much people actually talk about this character along the lines of A as opposed to B. And it's a debate that I find hugely frustrating because it's something that doesn't seem to have any possibility of a solution. It comes down so much to perception and to the specific parts of fandom that someone is hanging out in. And ultimately it just comes down to random yelling.

And that's not even getting into the more nuanced positions in between those two.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd put the blame on the people trying to turn her into some sort of feminist representation or role model, or bringing feminism into the picture of an insane villain in the first place. If that weren't going on, nobody would bat an eye at "I think this character is awesome"

People would have side-eyed the Joker fans if people had made him a role model for neuro-atypical people, but nobody did that

[(Anonymous)]

But then my sense is that a hypothetical supporter of the character would then go and say something along the lines of "But no one really thinks that she's an ideal feminist. They just enjoy seeing a female character play that role and enjoy the awesome villainy. But people who say that fans are turning her into a feminist icon are misrepresenting the real situation."

And then where are you left? I mean, I am pretty much incapable of figuring out which side is actually right. But not only that - it's also possible that both sides are right in that they're accurately describing the part of fandom that they've seen. You know, the blind man elephant thing. So then I'm left with nothing to do except throw up my hands in frustration and log off tumblr. It's unresolvable and completely frustrating.

[(Anonymous)]

Then you say, "if no one really thinks that she is an icon, why is everyone saying it?" I still blame the people who link her with feminism at all, because there's 0 need to do this

[(Anonymous)]

then they say "oh sure you can find a few crazy examples of anything, but it's still a misrepresentation of the fandom as a whole and therefore"

i mean, you can generalize from the specifics of this situation

[(Anonymous)]

Then you say "I wasn't talking about the entire fandom, I was talking about the loud subgroup who thinks this character is a role model, which you sound like when you say things using the same words and phrases as them"?

It seems very simple to me

[(Anonymous)]

But she kinda is a feminist villain, at least in the way she is aware of gender dynamics, Obviously she is not a role model at all, but she is definitely a feminist dark fantasy. That's one of the parts that does make her a compelling character, because it is her relatability taken to its most destructive extreme what makes her interesting.

And in order to have a compelling villain, it has to be relatable (unless you are going for just rule of cool) Its the "I understand you, but don't justify you" thing.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

Enjoying a sociopath character, male or female, doesn't equate to them being any kind of role model. If anyone said they truly wanted to be like The Joker, I'd be as disturbed as I would be if someone said they wanted to be like Amy.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. I use Cersei Lannister from GOT as an example. Do I like her as in root for her to succeed and want to be friends with her? Heck no! I'll cheer if and when she meets her end. But the thing is George RR Martin did such a good job in crafting a compelling backstory/motivations for her that I can't help but be fascinated by her. I want to see her character to the bitter end.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Cersei would be another great example (actually a lot of the GoT characters would be).

Thinking she's an awesome character (which she is) =/= thinking she's an awesome person. And while Cersei also embodies elements that take on a feminist slant (so much more so than Amy, imo; whatever else, Cersei's motivations are rooted in far less trivial issues within her universe), no one's claiming she's some kind of How To Be A Woman poster-child and thinking she's a role model for feminists everywhere.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't say "no one." Because Tumblr. But very few people.

[(Anonymous)]

no one's claiming she's some kind of How To Be A Woman poster-child and thinking she's a role model for feminists everywhere
You clearly don't visit the same corners of Tumblr that I do. :-(

[kallanda_lee]

Exactly.

Am as an awesome villain, in the sense people like Hannibal or the Joker for being interesting = totally valid.

Thinking she's a rolemodel = oh honey, no.

But it seems OP seems to just enjoy the character, while fully knowing she's a sociopath, which I don't see as a problem.