[ SECRET POST #2946 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2946 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 038 secrets from Secret Submission Post #421.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[nachtmusik]

Oh, that's right, I'd forgotten about that one. Possibly because I do also see a lot of love for that pairing whereas all I ever see for Sera is hate. ugh.

I can agree with that. Also as a bi woman I kinda want to punch everyone who complained about Isabela. Like holy shit it is OKAY for a bisexual women to be promiscuous and Isabela was the first bi character I've seen who does this where it's not treated like a bad thing (except by Aveline but lol that dynamic cannot be taken at face value really). I've had enough tiptoeing and acting like bi characters have to be monogamous and possibly even outright nonsexual to be "good". But that's my pet grievance with the Dragon Age fandom lol.

I think the biggest problem with this fandom is that some people get into it so much that they start thinking of groups like elves and mages to be on par with actual real life marginalized groups in importance and then we get this lunacy of things like "Sera is a horrible lesbian character because oh no she doesn't like mages" or all the complaints about Vivienne, etc.

[darkmanifest]

I think the biggest problem with this fandom is that some people get into it so much that they start thinking of groups like elves and mages to be on par with actual real life marginalized groups in importance

This is true and I hate it so, so fucking much, oh my god. There's so much projecting in some parts of this fandom that it's staggering.

[nachtmusik]

It also drives me crazy. Like holy shit no the plight of mages is not literally the same as the plight of real LGBT people, calm down. Fictional racism against fictional elves is not the same as real racism. I get that these games have engrossing universes and you care about mages and elves and stuff, but like. To go so far as to be offended when a character within the game has some sort of prejudice against a fictional concept is just nuts. I also get really sick of people acting like Andraste-ism is outright Christianity with a coat of paint on it. It's not. Quit acting like it's going to work exactly like Christianity. For one thing it definitely seems like Andraste-ism doesn't take issue with queer people, since the only time we've seen homophobia present itself in these games it was for secular reasons (the stuff with Dorian and his dad). No one ever brings up Andraste as a reason why your Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor shouldn't be involved with other men or other women depending on which gender you play as. Ugh. I think that might be the absolute worst case of projection, since it got to the point of people like. Feeling like Leliana was out of place for being queer and religious, or using that as a reason for Cassandra being straight.

[darkmanifest]

Seriously - last I checked, real-life LGBT people couldn't shoot lightning from their eyeballs by virtue of their gayness. The emotional investment that Bioware products can create in people is pretty intense - more so than other RPGs, I'm willing to argue - and some folks take it waaaaay too far. And seriously, people think explicitly matriarchal Andrastians would have the exact same prejudices as patriarchal Christians? Delightful.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, Bioware themselves often fail to coherently articulate the politics and culture of Thedas. They try to draw parallels between real world oppression and in-game oppression, but in really vague and inconsistent ways that can be frustrating when you're a fan trying to make sense of it all.
And they repeatedly drop the ball on the whole matriarchal Andrastian thing by then structuring the rest of the Fereldan/The Free Marches/Orlais as if a world whose dominant religion is matriarchal would be nearly as misogynistic as the real world, which... no.

I mean, there are things fandom does that do explicitly contradict canon (like when they say that Andrastians would be homophobic) and it annoys me when they do that, but in many cases the canon is sloppy and contradictory, so I fully expect people to come out of it with sloppy and contradictory opinions.

[(Anonymous)]

+1 IA

[darkmanifest]

While I agree the lore isn't perfect, I think it's pretty internally consistent if you're diligent about reading the (fucking endless but fascinating) codexes. Any parallels between the real world and Thedas have to make room for the influence the unique development of being an alien world has had on society, and for what it's worth, I really respect the setting for not being just another "exactly like the Middle Ages but with dragons stapled on". As for misogyny, eh, I think it makes a good attempt at handling a matriarchal religion spreading through largely patriarchal societies. None of Thedas's human governments are theocracies, so Andrastianism doesn't make the laws the way patriarchal religions once did/do in the real world.

It's true the lore hasn't done nearly enough to emphasize that, though, giving the impression that Thedas' laws and societies are equally as matriarchal as the dominant religion, when they most emphatically are not.

[(Anonymous)]

The canon is contradictory at times but when it comes to homophobia, they even had an entire codex entry you could find in DA:I about sexuality in Thedas (or Ferelden? I don't completely remember). It wasn't perfectly done but at least they tried.