[ SECRET POST #2950 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2950 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #422.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[lb_lee]

I admit, I find your way of arguing a little annoying, because this doesn't seem to be something that really impacts you. You also seem kind of interested in arguing whether women can truly know what male bodies require, which really rubs me the wrong way.

I don't think it requires any great gender intelligence or biological knowledge to be aware that no, men's bodies do NOT require that much space. Because if they did, the seats would've been made with that in mind, and those guys wouldn't be able to WALK. And it kind of irks me that I feel the need to quantify my own gender to join that conversation.

--Rogan

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry. I mean, I don't think I'm trying to prove anything or argue any thesis here; I'm trying to be as sincere as possible. And while it's not something that has great stakes personally, I do think it's an interesting topic, and it's one that I'm really sincerely interested in, not for political reasons but just because it interests me.

FWIW I really don't want to require anyone to quantify their gender to join the conversation. But there is a line of criticism and thought that - at least unless I've catastrophically misunderstood it, in which case, tell me so - that men can't know what women's bodies or women's experiences are like (in terms of interior experience - not, like, biological science). That they're categorically incapable of such knowledge. And it's not an argument that I'm trying to disprove. It seems to me that it has at least some plausibility on the face of it (although there's obviously complications in that theory when you get down to the level of details, and also in talking about the experiences of trans individuals, which I don't think I have a good answer for). But it also seems to conflict with the logic that underlies the criticism of manspreading. I don't think it's a really serious conflict, I don't think it's oppression or injustice, I think it's very low stakes, but there's something there that didn't make sense, to me. And I really am interested in people's thoughts about how those two things fit together and how people make sense of it.

Of course, looking at the answer that I got, it was one that pretty much rejected the whole initial logic that I was starting out from, which maybe implies that I was coming at this from incorrect starting premises. But even if that's the case, I'm glad that I was able to get that answer. I hope that I've been able to explain some of the background of where I'm coming from here but, again, I'm sorry if I've gone about this in a way that's irresponsible or unproductive.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[lb_lee]

But there is a line of criticism and thought that - at least unless I've catastrophically misunderstood it, in which case, tell me so - that men can't know what women's bodies or women's experiences are like (in terms of interior experience - not, like, biological science).

I have heard it, but I think you're misconstruing it. The version I have heard is that basically dudes need to shut up pretending they understand things they are highly unlikely to ever personally experience--pregnancy and abortion, for instance. It's not that men are so fucking dumb they can't understand women; it's that those who are so arrogant they think they know better than women need to shut up and actually LISTEN.

Manspreading is not comparable, because (A) women can take up space on the train and be pains in the ass too, if they want, and (B) men can experience being squished by assholes ventilating their junk, like me. You're comparing apples and oranges, and your base reasoning is misunderstood anyway.

And even if we took the base reasoning as true (and there are enough jerks of every flavor that I'm sure SOMEONE has argued it), it's bunk. I'm trans, and I KNOW that my gender changed over time. I was never one of those trans folks who believed their gender was fixed from the very start. And I CERTAINLY don't think I could only understand women's experiences till I became a man, at which point I instantly only understood men's experiences. A lot of cis dudes are still Greek to me. I feel more in common with my trans women friends than my cis men friends.

--Rogan