[ SECRET POST #2956 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2956 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09. [ SPOILERS for Fiddler on the Roof ]



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10. [ SPOILERS for A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones]



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11. [ SPOILERS for Agents of Shield ]



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12. [ WARNING for abuse ]



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13. [ WARNING for suicide ]



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14. [ WARNING for rape ]





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #422.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It's not half that bad. Some people are easily offended by anything remotely 'problematic' and they need a trigger warning for anything that might make them uncomfortable.

[lb_lee]

Enh, I prefer to be warned about rape and such in advance. Which is part of why I've never watched Game of Thrones in the first place.

But still, MARK MILLAR? That dude just... I dunno, I read his shit and feel like he's pissing on my face and laughing. It's like being trolled, only by someone considered a legitimate creator. It's uncomfortable.

--Rogan

[philstar22]

I'd just prefer them to admit that scenes are rape. That Cersei/Jaime scene was rape, and the fact that the episode writer and the showrunners don't acknowledge that is what bugs me.

[lb_lee]

Eugh, they don't admit it? I DEFINITELY shouldn't watch this show then. Yech.

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

no. just no. it's a scene of questionable consent between two characters who are in an intrinsicaly problematic relationship. (i'm in a really happy, non abusive relationship and we've had our differences about whether at a certain time sex was a good idea, and it wasnt rape. )
I actually prefer the show scene and cerseis initial resistance because the body of their son is right fucking next to them! and i've noticed that many of those who cry "it ws rape! admit it already!" are often the same ones who were really looking forward to the hot steamy sex on the altar. well, damn.
i definitely think it was a dubcon situation, though, and the show acknowledges as much. all the exchanges after that between them are much colder on her side, until she finds her new power ( when she tells tywin about them), and turns jaimes own "i don't care" against him in the last episode. i thought it was really well done and i'm fucking glad the creators don't feel the need to justify their decisions because of a scene that was blown way out of proportion for some sort of emotional debate that claims to be political.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't speak for the show, but the later books have turned into some sort of parody now, I swear. If there's ten pages without mention of women being raped (and it's, aside from a couple exceptions, always women, because only rape of women is historically accurate and thus totally necessary to show!), or even a lovely graphic description of it, then you've probably accidentally dropped the book and picked up something less terrible. Sorry, this is totally not coming from someone who's a bit tired of Martin being lauded as the best thing that has ever happened to fantasy.

Even without hyperbole, though, there really is a lot of rape in the books. Strangely enough, not that one scene in the show everyone is often talking about where all the people involved claim it's not rape - the series introduced that on its own.

[i_paint_the_sky]

Yes, I'm pretty sure GRRM has been watching the show too much because you could really see it seeping into the pages of ADWD. Not that the books were ever not violent but god was I sick of the words cock and cunt after reading that.

[(Anonymous)]

ADWD was finished before the show came out.

Game of Thrones premiered on April 17, 2011.

ADWD was released on July 12, 2011 and they had to have had the completed manuscript for at least six months before that date to put it out.

So how a show that had not come out yet could have "seeped into" ADWD I'm really not sure. GRRM is a slow writer so even if he was influenced by early scripts for the first season he would not have had time to massively change the book.

[i_paint_the_sky]

Because GRRM isn't involved at all with the HBO show.

Oh wait.

[lb_lee]

Yeah, I'm unlikely to ever read those books because I LOATHE epic fantasy. Combine it with rape and characters that are unsympathetic, and I'm just not the correct demographic.

If I want epic fantasy with political intrigue and sexual violence, I'll just reread Sasha Miller's Ladylord. There, yes, rape sadly does happen, but it's treated as a bad thing, and at least two female characters it happens to get revenge and justice. The book is far from perfect, but I love it. (Also, it does a really good job, I think, of writing a society where women are oppressed but still take strong roles in what's going on!)

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

If you ever want to try epic fantasy, maybe something by Guy Gavriel Kay? He's kind of Tolkien-esque but darker, but doesn't go down the Path Of Grimdark like GRRM. He also has more female characters that do stuff, and I don't recall a lot of rape, or constant gratuitous rape.

[lb_lee]

Enh, it isn't the grimdarkery that pulls me away from epic fantasy. It's purely an idiosyncratic thing. For me, the base minimum required for me to enjoy a story, regardless of quality, is that there must be two sympathetic characters interacting entertainingly. (Unless there's only one character in the story, in which case, just one.)

Epic fantasy, by necessity, has large casts, often switching from group to group, and having that rule fulfilled by every group is often not practical. Furthermore, I often have trouble just keeping track of all the various plots and groups. So it's not that epic fantasy is BAD at all, it's just that it often doesn't fulfill my personal requirements of enjoyment. (Again, Ladylord is an exception.)

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

No, there really isn't.

Rape is a reality in the world that the series takes place but taking that into consideration there's very little actual rape depicted on the pages and very little that could be considered graphic.

[(Anonymous)]

Right? I feel like I've read a completely different book series then everyone else in this comment thread!

[(Anonymous)]

So which one did you read? I can't think of a female character that hasn't been at least threatened with rape by this point, adult or child. Sexual violence is always on the forefront of everything. Saltwives and most of the stuff that comes out of the We Do Not Sow-brigade in general, Dany having to chop off peoples' dicks for raping people, the Dothraki as a whole, Tyrion in aDwD (even better because it comes from a POV character), the Mummers discussing raping Brienne, many of the things Ramsay Jr does, everyone is constantly leering/touching 13 year old Sansa (Sandor, that dude at her aunts', Tyrion, Littlefinger is still creepin' creepin')... the list goes on. And from the chapters GRRM has posted of TWoW so far, we're getting a 5 page description of a 12 year old girl seducing someone, complete with nipple tweaking.

Sure, it might be realistic (although again, why so little sexual violence against men if it's not for titilation? Jon at the Wall would have almost certainly have gotten some of it if this was acually realistic), but if the commenter wanted to be warned about rape, yeah, the books have plenty of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Did you not miss Theon's arc in ADWD? Tumblrinas went into a fit over Cersei's walk of shame, I can only imagine the uproar if she was tortured into someone's slave and had her genital area mutilated.

Also mentions of rape=/=rape.

[(Anonymous)]

+1, it's not anywhere near as bad as Mark Millar. Mark Millar hates and mocks his creations and readers. GRRM might kill off characters and write nasty characters, but he loves his readers (as long as they don't write fanfic) and his books are pretty internally consistent, if sometimes unpleasant.

Also, I've never heard that GRRM licks goats.

[lb_lee]

I truly do not understand what Millar's appeal is. Like, I don't like Frank Miller, but I will give him this, when I read his work, I feel like he's TRYING. I may not like where his efforts are taking him, but I at least feel he CARES about what he's doing.

Millar, though... I just feel DIRTY reading his stuff. It's like David Lynch level of uncomfortable, only instead of a deep symbolic message, there's a trollface pic.

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

On the other hand, some people think "gritty" = "good."

[(Anonymous)]

Dark and cynical does not automatically mean something is superior.

Not everyone who doesn't like the same things you like is easily offended or sensitive. People like what they like.

[(Anonymous)]

No but a lot of the people in this thread seem to be easily offended.

Also I have no idea why you would consider ASOIAF to be cynical. Dark, yes.