fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2957 ]

[ SECRET POST #2957 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2957 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Strange enough, it's not the Bible belt we have to worry about in the US when it comes to anti-vaxxers. Actually, the two of the most religious states, Mississippi and West Virginia have mandatory vaccination laws and the highest rate of vaccinations in the nation.

It's the upper middle-upper class "enlightened" soccer mom and blogging dad types in states like California that you have to worry about. Because those are the type of people who are more likely to think they know more than the doctors and will go with the homeopathy approach. Because frankly, the homeopathy approach is much more expensive way to go than just going for the shots.

Really? That's not really the case here. I know quite a few new agey types and they all vaccinated. I suppose the thing adherents of alternative medicine hate more then being told what to do by the man is being accused of being radical Christians.

Well, in America there is a whole movement of "Organic and natural is better than Big Pharm/Big Science." And it's aimed squarely at the upper middle/upper class. Why them? Because that movement is, like I said, expensive. They can afford it.

Basically, there are tons and tons of commercials, usually of some "mom" speaking buzzwords about products. Buzzwords like "wholesome," "organic," "natural" that in reality mean very little. (Seriously, you can't go more organic and natural than the measles.) And these commercials always end with that "mom" saying, "Because I know what's best for my family/body/children" or the announcer will say something similar of, "Because you know what's best." Which they practically telling the consumer not to listen to science but to go with their gut.

And it's a damn effective campaign. Because now you have this whole section of people thinking they know better than science and doctors because they can google and find other people who listen to those same commercials and agree with them on chat boards. So, what started as ads trying to sell granola bars has now carried over to the anti-vaxxing movement.

Ugh.

It's American arrogance that is the problem here. Where you are, the problem is religious ignorance.

You don't know the Dutch they can be arrogant as hell too. But in 2001 an actress called Sylvia Millecam died because she refused to believe she had cancer and instead tried to cure herself with alternative medicine. So the public opinion hasn't been on alternative medicine for a while now. Plus all of her "doctors" got sued to hell and back so no one dares to make too outrageous claims.

Plus the medical and food industry are strictly regulated so bullshit health claims are harder to make. Not that that really stops people but still.

Well, I can't speak to the anti-vaxxers, because I think everyone should get vaccinations. However, I'm fully behind organic things. I would like to eat foods that have ingredients I can pronounce. And I think it's ludicrous that companies refuse to label GMO foods that have been altered. Heaven forbid that I don't want to eat produce that's been altered so it's immune to Round Up so they can douse it in Round Up. But I think a lot of the food industry problem is big business, and has nothing to do with science and doctors. High fructose corn syrup isn't used because it's more scientific, it's because it's cheaper than sugar. Corn and soy isn't used in everything because it's better, it's because of farming subsidies. Sorry for the tangent, but all 'organic' isn't bad. Granola bars are great.

Organic isn't necessarily bad but sometimes it's a label used when there's actually nothing different about the product. And if it's better it's better because it's better in a specific way (like not being treated with certain chemicals that we know are toxic) and not because it's natural.

Basically people should know what they eat, and this applies to those who are too lazy to care as well as those who think a buzzword means it's better.

The GMO thing really makes me roll my eyes too. GMOs aren't necessarily bad. I'm not inherently opposed to labeling them but so much of what we eat has been modified that the movement to get them to be labeled is silly to me, and it perpetuates this "GMO = bad" cultural attitude that is ignorant and misleading.

But don't you know? Science is BAD. Thomas Edison was a witch, after all!

Exactly! We shouldn't necessarily be worried about GMOs.

The more concerning thing is the amount of control and power MONSANTO has over GMOs. There shouldn't be one company with that much power.

DA

Actually, Monsanto isn't the only player in the transgenic crop market. Syngenta and Du Pont are other key players but don't get that much press. In fact, Du Point has more seed patents/transgenic crop products commercially available. I've been hanging out a lot on GMOLOL and listening to the conversations the farmers and those passionate about agricultural science/development chat about the state of the industry. Monsanto is but one option, and they actually don't have as much of the commercial market share as many media outlets hype.

DA

The problem isn't their share of the market, the problem is how hideously unethical they are.

Labelling foods as containing GMOs or not is effectively useless, because the label (or lack thereof, if labelling GMO use were to become mandatory) isn't a magic circle that prevents seed drift or cross-pollination. I guarantee you the companies that label their foods GMO-free are not springing for the time-consuming and costly random genome sampling that would be required to verify their labels.

I would like to eat foods that have ingredients I can pronounce.

This is actually the weirdest argument for being pro-organic ever. Can you pronounce all the chemicals that make up an apple? Because I don't know anyone that can who hasn't taken chemistry.

http://i.imgur.com/i5FL3.jpg

Which isn't to say that not wanting pesticides and such on your foods is a bad thing. Organic is definitely good for a lot of reasons, but none of them are really related to how easy something is to say.

Perhaps that was a stupid way to put it. But, for example, I don't like looking at the back of a package of potato flakes and seeing a whole long list of things there besides "dried potato." I don't like looking at an ingredient list and seeing things like high fructose corn syrup, Red 40, or artificial flavors, even if I can pronounce them.

Not to mention that organic farmers use pesticides too, just different ones. Ones that actually haven't been studied that much.

^^^^^ this is an excellent summary of the situation

:/

Anecdote: my cousin and his wife are anti-vaxxers and haven't vaccinated their three kids, all under the age of six. She's reeeeally one of those new-agey types, she sells natural protein shakes or something like that IDK and the fact that they're not vaccinated really worries my aunt [the boys' grandma] and she is VERY religious and conservative. While right-wingers are ignorant about some things, for some reason most of them take vaccines pretty seriously, which is a bit surprising but I think that's just the way the culture has developed here...

I think it is culture. The far left is less likely to listen to the older generations. Usually dismissing them as ignorant and too old fashion. In a, "You might have done it that way back then but we have a better way now.") While the far right is more prone to listen to the older generations. (Pining for the "good old days.") And it's the older generations who are banging the vaccinate your kids hammer because they remember when you could not and how people they cared about suffered and/or died from not being able to be vaccinated. When was the last time you heard of a 65 and over anti-vaxxer? Most of the anti-vaxxers are 45 and below.

So true.

(though I for one have no desire to learn what measles and polio are all about the hard way)

You know, I used to work in an orthopedic shoe shop that did dealings with polio survivors. You know, those old folks who survived BEFORE the Salk vaccine.

Let me tell you, only people who have never SEEN polio, or experienced it in their country because of vaccines can actually be stupid enough to reject vaccines. Polio is fucking horrible.

--Rogan

My great uncle had polio as a child and he survived but his one leg was affected his entire life. I won't ever forget seeing how different his two legs were simply because he had polio as a child.

When/If I have kids, they'll all be vaccinated, just like I was.

I still remember the awful oatmeal bath my mom gave me when I had chickenpox and am so grateful they've come up with a vaccine for that now too.

Yup. One of our clients was a one-legged polio survivor that had to be CARRIED into our office. He just couldn't make it with all the snow. Trust me, after that, if I hadn't been all for vaccinations then, I'd've become so!

Yeah, we JUST predated the chicken pox vaccine. Thankfully, I don't remember much about having it ourself, just that it was inconvenient.

--Rogan

That has always been my thought. Vaccines have become victims of their success. Gen-X and later have no clue what measles was really like - because our parents who did know vaccinated us so we would never have to know.

I am old enough that I got chicken pox and while I didn't have many pox (my sister got those) I was pretty sick for a day or two. And my father came down with shingles - which is something I would not wish on anyone. As a result as soon as I am eligible I am getting the shingles vaccine.

That's weird, isn't it? Anti-science is something you usually associate with Southern religious types, but the anti-vaxxers are... I don't know if they're usually liberal or what, but it's the same arguments in different form: "science is wrong because I believe and I ~know~ what's natural and what's unnatural, and dammit, I have the ~right~ to do what I like even if it negatively impacts others!"

Homeopathy is so stupid.

It isn't liberal as much as having money to burn. The whole homeopathy movement is aimed squarely at those types. They are advertised to those types. If you go to a trailer park in Mississippi, you are not going to find many people who can afford to spend fifteen bucks on a bag of artisanal, organic, fair trade grapes. But go to San Diego and you will.

Irrational beliefs are unfortunately not exclusive to any intelligence or income group. I knew a professor who managed to fall for one of those I'm a Nigerian prince emails. He was very smart but really gullible.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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