[ SECRET POST #2964 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2964 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #424.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Hate the specific sects of Islam and the specific cultures that encourage people to do awful shit in the name of religion. Not Islam as a whole.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Why?

When black people say they hate white people, no one says "hate the specific cultures that enslaved you" or the specific people that enslaved you. No, they're told that it's perfectly fine to hate all white people. Even if being born white is something white people can't help.

Why shouldn't I hate a religion that murdered members of my family, never recognized/apologized for it, drove them from their homes? People CHOOSE to believe in it -- it's a belief/ideology.

Muslims can still be good people, but I still hate Islam.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of agree tbh. People make blanket statements about hating Christianity all the time, but they often don't get half as much shit as people do if they say the same thing about Islam. I don't like any form of organized religion.

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

When black people say they hate white people, no one says "hate the specific cultures that enslaved you" or the specific people that enslaved you. No, they're told that it's perfectly fine to hate all white people. Even if being born white is something white people can't help.

I would if I thought it was a view that I thought many people held seriously or that was likely to be particularly dangerous. I think it's certainly a wrong view. To the extent that it's an acceptable thing to say, it's because it's a proxy for a much more complicated set of positions, and a proxy that doesn't really play into much existing discrimination. I don't think either of those things is true in this case.

Why shouldn't I hate a religion that murdered members of my family, never recognized/apologized for it, drove them from their homes? People CHOOSE to believe in it -- it's a belief/ideology.

Well, if nothing else, because I think it's factually wrong to attribute that to Islam as such as though it were the sole sufficient cause of the Armenian genocide. Because that's a horrifying atrocity, yes, but one that's in the past and that's not really causally connected with your hatred now. You're hardly getting back at the people who did those things by hating Islam.

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Because that's a horrifying atrocity, yes, but one that's in the past

holy fuck

you're that person who told a jewish anon to get over the holocaust a while back, aren't you?

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

i wouldn't say that to a jewish anon, and i'm not saying that to this person

i am saying that a jewish anon would not be justified in hating all Germans, which is I think an accurate analogy here

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Because that's a horrifying atrocity, yes, but one that's in the past

what the fuck is this then?

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

You and your bullshit double standards.

"One that's in the past" -- yeah like slavery isn't in the fucking past. At least white people fucking admitted that it happened. Which is more than I can say for any recognition my family got.

Oh and as though my grandparents didn't have to flee Aleppo for Lebanon because of this recurrent bullshit.

Fuck off.

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry I disagree with you I guess

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's easy to fucking "disagree" when you haven't lost a huge chunk of your family and had the lives of people you love completely upended and put in danger.

But go ahead and "disagree."

You sound like the idiots who tell me that it's "wrong" for me to hate Islam -- as though you have any fucking idea what you're talking about.

(frozen comment) NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

you're a disagreeable person, yes

Re: Real talk here

[feotakahari]

"When black people say they hate white people, no one says 'hate the specific cultures that enslaved you' or the specific people that enslaved you. No, they're told that it's perfectly fine to hate all white people. Even if being born white is something white people can't help."

As I recall, a whole bunch of people on FS were offended when someone talked about hating white people. (It was in the context of a show called American Horror Story.)

Personally, I feel like people have internalized "don't punch down" to the point that they tie themselves into ridiculous knots trying to prove that the punch they're throwing is actually punching up. You mentioned that you hate Republicans--a ton of their rhetoric is about how people on disability are faking being disabled, or people who make rape accusations weren't actually raped, or illegal immigrants are taking the privileges of citizens . . . It's all about showing that they're the underprivileged ones, no matter how many logical contortions they have to go through.

You've framed yourself as a genocide survivor, and Muslims as people you can punch up to. A Muslim might frame Christians as someone he can punch up to. But really, who gives a fuck whether it's punching up or down? Despite all the shit I went through in kindergarten, I think my teachers were right when they said hitting was wrong.

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

i don't even know what the hell you're trying to say here. it's a useless rambling mess of a post. clarify, please?

Re: NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

It makes sense to me but it's using a pretty specific set of jargon and assumptions so I think that might be where the difficulty is coming in

Not sure I can really translate it

Re: NAYRT

[feotakahari]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that being in a position of weakness doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. Especially not on the Internet, where you can make up any background for yourself. If your statement would be ridiculous, offensive bullshit if you were a wealthy white man, your words don't magically gain relevance because you're poor or disabled or whatever shit you want to claim for yourself.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Except I'm not fucking punching anyone.

Did I say we should wipe out Islam? No. Did I say that Islam should be banned/restricted? No. In fact, I specifically said that Muslims should be free to practice whatever they want peacefully. That they can be good people.

But fuck it -- I'm not going to stop hating Islam just because it's getting attacked. That doesn't make the ideology itself any better to me. And that doesn't make up for the loss of my family, the horrific shit my grandparents have gone through, the STRESS it put on my dad.

I would never advocate violence against Neo-Nazis or Republicans or Muslims (and no, I'm not equating them, I'm deliberately using different levels of people I disagree with, with Neo-Nazis obviously being the worst). But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop hating the ideology or hating the things that they've done.

I'll tolerate it. But that's it. I'm not going to stop hating it.

I'm not going to publicly criticize it because I don't want people to feel unsafe, but I'm not going to lie and pretend I have warm feelings for Islam when I don't.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

There might be some semantic problems here, because you keep saying that you hate Islam, but the position you're trying to defend seems to be a position of disliking Islam more than anything. So don't get surprised when people read you saying that you hate Islam and assume that you hate Islam.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

The people can't fucking read because I said in my opening post that I hated Islam and specifically mentioned:

"Muslims are still human beings who deserve to practice their religions in peace and I would never advocate violence against them.

But I do hate Islam and I'm tired of being told it's wrong for me to hate it."

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

jesus christ are you this obnoxious IRL

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

i'm the other anon who's been riding getoverit!anon's ass

i don't think you're obligated to do anything here, everyone telling you you're wrong for personally disliking an ideology and belief system that has led to deaths and persecution on a personal level like this is out of line and IMO you're justified in how you feel

if anyone needs to get punched, it's getoverit!anon

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

SO long as you hold the same opinion about people who hate all ideologies that lead to death and persecution, you're golden. Otherwise, WTF?

And for AYRT, hate all you want, so long as you don't stoop to their and start acting on the hate. But it's a damn slippery slope.

Re: Real talk here

[feotakahari]

Edit: You said at the bottom "I'm not going to publicly criticize it because I don't want people to feel unsafe," so the rest of this post is completely irrelevant. It helped me get my thoughts in order, so I guess I'll just post it anyway.

-- -- -- --

I don't think I can argue with this per se, but I'm not sure this is necessarily an answer. I mean, look at fundamentalist Christians. "We love you, even if you're gay. But you're going to hell. But we won't pressure you, and we'll tolerate you anyway. But please stop being gay so you won't go to hell." And then they're all surprised when gay kids kill themselves.

I already know you're not gonna like this comparison, since being gay is something you are, and religion is something you find. But that's not really a distinction I can make from way out here on the non-religious fringe. I don't understand why some people are gay, and I don't understand why some people are religious, and I don't have to understand either. All I have to do is support them when they're doing good things and tell them off when they're being assholes. If nothing else, I can certainly respect Islam's support for science and education.

I dunno. [I removed a whole bunch of stuff here for total irrelevance.]

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not telling Muslims they're bad people though. I think they genuinely believe that their religion is one of peace. Or they're the equivalent of cafeteria Catholics and throw out the parts they don't like. Just like I know some Republicans that are pro-gay marriage or who think that government should be cut back to foster local charities and rebuild community support for the poor.

I don't think they're heartless, murderous monsters.

But Islam itself has brought nothing but pain and heartache for me and my family. And I can't look at it and be filled with warm, happy thoughts about it. I don't want Muslim people to suffer or not be able to practice their religion. I just don't want to have to deal with it. And yet my family constantly seems to get dragged through the mud because of some bullshit philosophy/ideology/religion.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

we have a bad ass up here....

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you, anon. I think it's the kind of feeling that is very difficult for people who HAVEN'T gone through it, or who come from societies that don't have a long history / strong multi-generational family bonds, or who know what it's like to be an ignored minority, to understand.