fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2972 ]

[ SECRET POST #2972 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2972 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 072 secrets from Secret Submission Post #425.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I'm kind of there with Thorin and Bilbo, still confused as to why the acorn scene is in BOTFA if not to show us that Thorin Oakenshield is totes in love with Bilbo Baggins and that love is the only thing that is allowing him to keep any semblance of his true self.

I'm looking forward to the EE and hearing what everyone has to say about that scene.

I know how this sounds.

For me, it was the parallel between Thorin / Bilbo and Kili / Tauriel at the end that did it. It has to mean something, dammit!

Yeaaaa, the parallels were rather obvious.

There are a lot of moments that struck me. (Bilbo's being the final voice to shake Thorin of his 'gold sickness', and the whole "To me, he was..." scene where Bilbo can't get the words out and Balin watches him with a knowing look and sparkle in his eye. I get that losing a friend would be unspeakably painful, but the Thorin death scene did not feel platonic at all to me; BOFA was the tragic love story of Thorin and Bilbo, lol.)

Hah. This might actually get me to watch the last movie. /am so lame

I won't say the last film is anywhere near perfect, but if you go into it wanting to see a Bilbo and Thorin romance you should be overjoyed, imo. At least about that aspect. They don't have as many scenes together as I'd like (but then again they would be like 70 percent of the movie if it were up to me, so maybe it's for the best), but the ones they do have are wonderful.

I forgot to mention the scene where Thorin finds out Bilbo took the arkenstone, which was also a massive shippy moment. He has tears in his eyes, looks utterly devastated and proclaims that Bilbo has no claim over HIM, even though Bilbo was talking about the arkenstone. (There's a bit before that where it sounds like he's saying the treasure of Erebor is his and Bilbo's; he keeps lumping them together. Bilbo does the same when he talks about their honor.) It was some weird phrasing if we aren't expected to believe that something more was going on between them.

There's a buttload of subtext in this film. Subtext, or I am reading too much into things. Either way it is glorious and feels like canon.

The first movie was way shippier than I remember the books being, by the end of the last one, my brain decided that it was canon. The dialogue they decided on for some scenes was a little weird for a platonic relationship too.

The death scene was less "I was an idiot, you're a good bro" and more "I'm sorry and I want you to know you're my favourite person ever and you're so amazing. Try to move on and be happy without me, maybe have some kids or shit idk."

Oh man, that hug was fantastic, but looking back at the first film now.. Even their initial meeting was flirty. Thorin was a bit of a dick, but you got the feeling he didn't want to like Bilbo but was intrigued. It was fun.

By the last film he's just head over heels though. Even the mithril scene, while in the book, takes on a whole new meaning in the movie... Token of friendship my ass. The fact that Thorin says the gold is there's, starts to question his fellow dwarves loyalty, is all “I will not part with a single piece of gold” then insists on giving Bilbo a priceless treasure is kind of sketchy. Especially since he helps Bilbo put it on with everyone in the background. It comes off very possessive.

The death scene just played out as two people who love each other but never expressed it, only realizing that their love is returned at the last moment. Thorin even has that little moment of happiness when Bilbo says he's glad to have shared in his perils. He sees how heartbroken Bilbo is and wishes him happiness, but he totally dies thinking Bilbo is the most precious thing in Middle Earth. It's so damn sad.

I know! From the start it's like Gandalf was trying to set them up or something, and they're kind of interested but also pretty insistent that they're not really compatible. Then Bilbo hears him singing and thinks maybe he has hidden depths or something, and Thorin sees that Bilbo's actually pretty smart and brave, and at one point he jumps off a cliff for him.

Oh good lord the mithril thing! Thorin's look of awe when he sees it on Bilbo. The way the others all watched, too. Like it's a significant thing. Probably equivalent to proposing marriage or something to them, like "what's mine is yours, and everyone else can go fuck themselves!".
I take Gandalf's line in the Fellowship to mean that he never told Bilbo what it meant that Thorin gave him that, and I think Gimli said it was a "Kingly gift" or something. Thorin was really saying "be my Queen." It's... logic. Or shipping goggles. I don't know. I don't care.

That line in the death scene sounds like marriage vows. "In gold-sickness and health, in good times and attack by orcs, til death do us part - noooo bb you can't die!" It's like Bilbo's telling him they've been together all along even if they were too dumb to admit it earlier.

Ugh no I need to stop thinking about the ending. They lived happily ever after. So did Fili and Kili, and if he wants to marry an elf that's his business and Thorin can stop judging because his spouse also has pointy ears and eats green stuff. The end.

Gandalf was totally setting them up. He championed Bilbo like a boss trying to convince everyone he was worth bringing along; obviously he thought an adventure would be good for Bilbo, but clearly Bilbo got a bit more than that out of it.

Exactly! It definitely makes more sense for it to be a courtship thing than a, “You're my buddy” gift. Thorin doesn't trust anyone else and is worried about shit being stole from him, but then he gives Bilbo the 2nd most valuable thing in the mountain (one assumes, anyway)? And the other dwarves are there as if they're having some kind of ceremony... Like, seriously guys, what do you want us to take away from this?

Yes, I agree about the too dumb to admit it thing. This scene is not all that different from actual romance scenes in other films, only it didn't end with a kiss. The language used still made it sound longing and in love, though. It's classic romantic tragedy material. (Given the way the actors talk about it, I'm fully convinced they played it that way purposefully too. Especially Armitage. I think he said something at a con about Thorin dying full of love, which... Sounds about right.)

You know what fic I hate? The ones where Fili and Kili stay dead but Thorin and Bilbo live. It actually upsets me so much I can't read it. If you want to write a happy ending, don't do it halfway! I love the tragic nature of Bagginshield canon, but everyone lives AU's are my bread and butter. Sometimes I don't want to think about how lonely and depressed Bilbo must've been after the quest, alone until Frodo, having a desire to travel again but deciding not to, maybe because the memories were too difficult. Sometimes I just want to believe everything went right and Thorin got to be king and he and Bilbo and Kili and Fili and even Tauriel, everyone lived happily ever after.

I hit the back button so fast when I find those ones! The "fix-it" tag is for fixing all the things. You must use it wisely, fandom.
I've realised I don't actually care how unrealistic or weird "everyone lives" AUs are, I still love them.

I feel like they were three very different movies. The first one was a rom-com with a happy ending, the second was an action film with a romantic subplot, and the third was an epic romantic tragedy. The only consistency between the three was the romance. I think I would struggle to tie them together in my head without their relationship. I'm willing to overlook the mess for the Thilbo, though! It really was very "I'll never let you go, Jack!" at the end. If it wasn't at least partly intentional, I'd be surprised.

The actors have to be pretty damn aware. At least Martin must have been prepared after dealing with the Sherlock crazies. Casting Richard as Thorin was asking for it, really. Thorin's supposed to be older than Balin. No Dwarf or Hobbit is supposed to be conventionally good-looking.

Majestic!Thorin being majestic gives me life though.
.... I find Richard more attractive with a beard for some reason.

Yup! They are a nice break from the harshness of canon. Usually in a fantasy setting like this I would be pretty particular about the pairing staying in the setting (especially since we're talking Middle Earth, you can't get better than that; I don't want no coffee shop LOTR AU), but as long the fic is Thorin/Bilbo I'll even read modern AU's. (If they're reincarnation fics, even better. Let's go wild!)

You're totally right about the genres, the first had all the beats of a rom-com (And so on). The bagginshield is a massive part of me liking these films; I know I wouldn't feel as strongly about them being entertaining if Thorin/Bilbo weren't a thing, but you're right, the bad parts are worth watching for the good. (A lot of which so happened to include them.)

Haha, yea, I'm sure Martin's not surprised by anything at this point, but Richard probably didn't know what to expect from it. Hopefully Martin gave him some warning! Poor, handsome, Richard. Maybe no one will give him Bagginshield fic. Hopefully. (Though he does seem to encourage the pairing, so I bet he likes it inverse.)

I remember the wank about the dwarves being too pretty! I would've dealt either way, but I'm not going to complain about such eye candy either.

I agree, actually! I don't think he's ever been hotter than he is as Thorin; the beard and the gorgeous long hair suit him. (Though, I mean... Armitage. Pretty sure I'd find him attractive in anything.)

I think Richard has more to worry about from the Richard/Lee RPF crowd, tbh. Poor dudes.

I haven't read many modern AUs. I think I'll look for rec lists. Second Chances by authoressjean is my favourite reincarnation fic so far, and I don't mind that it's a Sherlock crossover. I haven't read the sequel.

I am well and truly done trying to wade through all the girl!Bilbo fic. I may reconsider if I find anything that also has genderswapped Thorin, too. No more Bilba or Bella or Billa the mary-sue though.

I'm not sure I'll re-watch them as much as I do the LOTR trilogy. I think because the book is a prequel, it's not supposed to feel complete. I need my happy conclusion.

I'm certainly not complaining about the cast of hotness!
Oh thank god. I don't feel so alone now. I have friends who think Richard is attractive but don't think Thorin is. I have to stop myself from being like "daaaayuuuum you fine." when we watch together. It helps so much that he can act, too.

Have you seen the blooper where the key gets stuck?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XdactnAtw

Heee.

Ooo, yea, you're probably right about that... I don't pay much attention to his personal life so I'm staying out of it. Poor Richard.

I love Second Chances! IIRC I read the sequel too, and it was quite good. I wouldn't be adverse to more of that verse. I'm having a hard time pasting right now, but Nothing Gold Can Stay is FANTASTIC and one of my favorite fics in the fandom. It's so beautifully written. It is stupidly popular so there's a good chance you've already tried it, but I needed to mention it. (I also love One-Sided Conversations, though it feels more like a Richard/Martin AU than a Thorin/Bilbo one; still, it was cute and ridiculously fluffy.) Most the other fic I have to rec is still set in Middle Earth, but if you're ever interested just ask!

I never tried in the first place... I'm not a big fan of genderswap fic. I love the art, but the fic I have a hard time with. I just keep imagining the actors with terrible wigs, lmao. I hope you find female Thorin one day, though! I know I've seen it once or twice, but I'm not sure if Bilbo was a girl too.

I most likely won't either, but I have watched AUJ quite a few times already. To me that's a solid film, though still not on par with the LOTR films. I'll rewatch the Thorin/Bilbo stuff a buttload of times, though.

Richard is gorgeous no matter what but his face does benefit from some stubble, I think. The rugged look is a good one for him; it makes him even more distinct, too!

And yes, I love that blooper, lmao. Is this the same vid where he makes a joke about Bilbo and Thorin having coitus? (I love Richard.)

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[ SECRET POST #2972 ]

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