fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2983 ]

[ SECRET POST #2983 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2983 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Cold Case]

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[Pedro Almodovar]

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[Highlander]

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[The Adventures of Dr McNinja]

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[Free!/Love Stage!! (I think)]

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[Outlander]

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[One Outs]

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[Babylon 5]

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[Alanis Morisette]

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[Avon, Blake's 7]

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[One Outs]

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[Star Trek DS9]

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[Fables]

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[Lady Gaga]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #426.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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DA, and slightly off-topic, but this is why I hate those tumblr posts that are all "if you're a [gay guy/lesbian] but not into trans [men/women] then you're [transphobic/disgusting/scum]" because...attraction isn't a conscious decision and it's a lot more likely to be based on apparent gender? I've grown to tolerate tumblr overall but some popular sentiments really make me want to scream "that's not how it works!"

Yeah. Or when people tell me I should label myself pansexual if I'd date someone who's, for example, genderqueer. But how someone identifies has nothing to do with whom I'm attracted to. How would I even know what they label themselves when I see them?

It probably (I could swear I read this on LJ before tumblr took off) has more to do with transphobia in bisexual social circles. Saying you're pansexual was like "I'm open to that possibility as well and won't run off screaming/insult you/etc.".

that depends on the person really since most of the bisexual community states that bisexuality means you are attracted to people of the same gender as you and to people of a different gender than you. people less familiar with queer identities may still believe bisexuality means attraction to men and women but for the most part that thought is archaic

This wasn't the case about five or so years ago, when pansexual started to become a popular term. Speaking as someone who was involved in bi communities, I definitely saw a lot of transphobia and people saying that bi meant "biological" men or women only. I saw it more than I would really like to remember. That's where a bunch of people started drawing the line and using pansexual instead, to indicate interest in trans and non-binary as well.

At this point, the bi community seems to have mostly gotten its head out of its ass on that matter at least. I'm not particularly pleased with the sector of the bi community that is now saying it's transphobic to call yourself pansexual, while often completely ignoring the existence of non-binary people who don't necessarily fall into the male/female binary (I know multiple people who consider themselves neither, for instance). Of course, that particular section also likes to say things like non-binary people are "problematic" based on the idea that the only reason someone might have for identifying as non-binary is because of internalized sexism, etc.

I eventually said fuck it and decided to use queer instead, because it's a good enough descriptor, and if people ask, I'll elaborate. While some people dislike it because of its history as a slur, I've gotten remarkably less identity policing since I started using queer. *throws hands in air in frustration*

yea i feel that. there's a lot of transphobia in the lgbt community as a whole but i think there was a lot of confusion even in the bi community about bisexuality and where trans issues fall into that. i know someone on here before (forget their name, starts w a c, looks like a bunch of random letters to me but im sure it means something) pointed out that this was a problem in the bi community but it wasnt what the bi community at its foundation stood for, and that bisexuality was always intended to be inclusive, etc. but i think that applied only to the particularly educated and frankly a lot of bi-identifying folk didnt embrace the term as it was meant to be, framing their sexuality around transphobia.

i prefer queer too honestly but if anybody asks for my sexuality i always just say "bi/pan" together but even then it confuses people lol

Caerbonnig? I'm pretty sure I'm mangling the spelling but that's the C name I can think of of the top of my head that might look odd, being of some Celtic related language, I believe.

Yup, that was my experience too. Regardless of what the more educated members of the community might have believed the bi community stood for, there were a lot of people who were flat-out transphobic, and it's part of why I personally distanced myself. When I realized I wasn't straight, I originally IDed as bi, and my first love was a trans man. This was back in the early 00s and it really shocked me to see the attitudes in the bi community.

I pretty much jumped on pansexual as soon as I found out the term because I loathed the transphobia so much; a not insignificant number of my partners have been trans or non-binary. My ex-married partner is genderqueer, my fiance is gender-questioning and trying to find a term that fits, my fiancee is genderfluid, her husband/my FWB is genderfluid, two of my girlfriends have been trans women... and I can't say I'm entirely cis myself, not with my background (my dad wanted a son, so he raised me to be the son he wanted; I was punished heavily for showing any interest in anything "girly" or "feminine", I was punished for "feminine" body language and vocal patterns, on top of that I have PCOS that, without treatment, is severe enough for testosterone levels in male ranges, so there were bodily effects as well), but my experience is rare enough there's not really a term for it outside of gender non-normative. And after that, I reallllllllly strongly identify as female, even if my trained body language and such gets me misgendered in situations where people cannot physically see me. (It even happens online a lot, which is why I use my photo as my icon.)

Anyway. Sorry, I've been up all night and 'round the vet's office for a sick kitty and am only just getting to settle down, so apologies for the ramble. If people ask me at this point beyond queer, I tell them I'm a Kinsey 5, which is most accurate; I'm attracted to people who are more feminine in personality and who identify at least equally female, but body is fairly irrelevant to me.

im not trying to convince you of anything but that's quite literally what pansexuality is about. people who are pan are attracted to whoever they happen to be attracted to regardless of that person's gender identity. maybe im just misunderstanding your comment but what you described is the definition of pansexuality for most of us who identify as pan. but you dont have to use any labels you dont want to, it's up to you. just if youre avoiding it because you think it doesnt suit you, it might fit more than you realise

Except what you say pansexuality means is what bisexuality means to me. I'm attracted to some people, not their identities. What I want to convey is that it doesn't matter if you have male or female bits - you can give it a try and maybe I'll be attracted to you.

To be clear, I have no problem with people using pan. I just really dislike being told the label I use is wrong or means something it doesn't.

most ppl who are bi/pan agree that the terms are interchangeable but maybe a little nuanced, ie. i think bi is reduced to same & different genders and i think pan is the aforementioned

which is essentially the same thing just said differently really, overall you get to choose your own labels

...Tumblr "trans" kids just make my life difficult. That's all I have to say about that, lest I get into a giant rant on the subject.

Tumblr kids make everybody's lives difficult.

This makes sense to me though. If you're gay and you're not into trans men, why? Is it ALL trans men without question? What you're saying sort of assumes that the trans man would be unable to apparently pass for male, which is pretty badly mistaken. You can go 'I'm attracted to guys who presenting as male / apparently male at first look', in which transmen would fit, but going 'not attracted to trans men because they aren't apparently male' is pretty transphobic, tbh. Same with transwomen.

I get attraction based on appearances and what people seem to be, I also get long term relationship incompatibility (maybe dicks just don't do it for you and you can't be in a long term relationship with someone who has one, sure, or maybe you want biological kids and wouldn't be in a relationship with a person unable to have that) but going 'automatically no trans people' can be pretty transphobic if you assume it's the 'trans' part that's an automatic disqualifier.

Like I'd get it if a dude went 'I'm not into transwomen in long term relationships because I want biological kids, I would feel the same way about a sterile ciswoman / a ciswoman who's had a hysterectomy', but that's not even attraction, that's relationship stuff. You CAN'T know whether someone is sterile or unable to have children just from looking at them.

If you're just talking about pure, raw attraction, being trans should be an irrelevant factor because it's impossible to tell with 100% certainty whether someone is or isn't trans just based on looking at them. Whether or not you'd have a relationship with a trans person is a different question.

Yeah but on the other hand genitals are a pretty big part of why someone might be attracted to someone else. Like, I'm trans myself, so I get the 'if you're attracted to that gender it shouldn't matter if they're trans' thing, but... It does matter to a lot of people. Attraction is based on tons of factors, and genital compatibility is one of them.

It really does a disservice to queer people to pretend that some gay dude is transphobic because he's not sexually aroused by vaginas. He's transphobic if he disses trans people, or harms them in some way. He's not transphobic just because he wants to be with someone with genitals he finds hot. There's a lot of people of every orientation who don't care at all what's in your pants, and a lot of people who do care, and it's fine to be either way.

this is true but does a genuine preference in genitals make exclusion of trans people any less transphobic at its roots? i wouldnt equate it with more active forms of hostility but it fits the definition pretty well regardless. shrug. like anybody who has racial biases in their attraction to others has racist preferences, even if it's something they believe they can't control (a lot of times though it is controllable, maybe they feel the way they do because of their upbringing for instance, but there's a lack of incentive to change these thoughts)

People have all kinds of preferences when it comes to sexual attraction. You're not a fatphobic jerk if you tend to be attracted to thin people and you're not transphobic if you're made really uncomfortable by vaginas or penises. Calling someone transphobic because they know they aren't attracted to certain genitalia seems pretty douchey and potentially manipulative

excluding transgender people from your tastes is pretty transphobic tho.. im not really sure how you could make that less the case. it's an understandable preference and not one i'm inherently condemning but it is what it is.

being all-around unattracted to one type of genitalia is a little different than being unattracted to a trans person's genitals because they dont align with what you expected them to. genital "preference" is pretty assholish in the case of the latter so i'm not going to write off preferences as inherently not transphobic just because theyre preferences

also: the idea being potentially manipulative doesnt make it any less true. the thought isn't inherently manipulative, it becomes manipulative when gross, abusive people choose to make it so. the same can be said for a number of things.

You are totally wrong if you're assuming all transwomen are women with penises and all transmen are guys with vaginas, yeah.

'I would not be interested or attracted to a woman if she had a penis' is not the same as 'I'm not interested in or attracted to transgender women', they're vastly different statements. The second is transphobic if that's all there is to it, the first is perfectly fine.

Likewise I would say 'I'm not attracted to all black women' is not okay but 'I'm attracted only to women who have the same cultural background and values as I do (and this excludes most to all black women)' is fine.

You can't tell someone's genitals from just looking at them, though. And being attracted or not attracted to genitals is significantly different from being attracted or not attracted to trans people. Especially post-op MTFs, considering that their vaginas are pretty much identical to cis women's and so on.

'I'm not aroused by vaginas / penises and would prefer not to be in a relationship with someone who had / didn't have one' is not transphobic. 'I would prefer not to be in a relationship with a pre-op MTF because I don't think we would be sexually compatible' is not transphobic. 'I'm not attracted to transwomen' is definitely.

gender and sex aren't the same thing tho and the point of those posts is to call out the fact that people who like a certain gender but don't like trans members of that gender are associating sex parts (assumed or otherwise) with gender, thereby making their attraction in these cases exclusively about genitals, and in truth that is a little transphobic. i wouldnt call people with this line of thinking "scum" because a lot of it is just ignorance that most of us get raised on, and therefore it takes a conscious effort to "unlearn" that stuff, and a lot of people never receive the wake-up call they need to give them the motivation. but intended or not, this line of thinking is pretty hostile and not finding trans people attractive because they are trans is transphobic.

My attraction is not based exclusively on genitals (it's not like I'll sex with anyone who has a vagina) but I am disinterested in penises to the point where I find them somewhat repulsive and feel anxiety when I try to imagine being in a sexual situation involving them. I don't necessarily think the person they're attached to is repulsive because that depends on a lot of other factors, but I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who has a penis (it would be one thing if it were just a romantic relationship, but I personally would not be satisfied with a relationship that had no sexual component so...yeah, that unfortunately disqualifies some people who are trans. I'm not going to enter into a relationship that I know could make me uncomfortable in the bedroom because I think it's the only way to be tolerant)

thats understandable and (to me) is different from people who, for instance, may like penises but not on trans women

it's hard for me to call that transphobic personally even when i know it technically should fit the definition

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[ SECRET POST #2983 ]

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