fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2988 ]

[ SECRET POST #2988 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2988 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #427.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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I'm not saying that people should leave cruel feedback to toughen people up.

I guess I'm just perplexed as to why people get so upset by anon reviewers.

I mean, I'm really insecure in real life and horribly self-conscious. But online? I don't care. I mean, if someone wants to call something I've written the result of an inbred horse-monkey smashing its face on a keyboard, what do I care?

I'll either ignore them or I'll challenge them to come up with intelligent reasons as to why it's horrible. 99% of the time I've found most people who leave really harsh reviews are incapable of backing it up with anything credible. Which is why I can't really care.

(Just a sidenote: I don't go and leave mean reviews -- I meant "hit a nerve" in the sense that I write a fic or a piece of meta that really pisses people off because they disagree with my interpretation. And so, having hit that nerve, they'll leave me a harsh review on the fic or meta.)

You're treating an emotional response like it's a logical argument. It's true that a lot of harsh reviews are also very unhelpful and can be disregarded, but if they hit on the writer's insecurities than they're going to be hard to ignore anyway.

Well sure an emotional response can't really be controlled.

But oftentimes I see these people go and publicly post about how it's not acceptable. And that's where I find it difficult to sympathize. I mean, it's one thing to be hurt by something a reviewer said -- that can't really be helped.

But it's when people go online and defensively post: "I didn't write this for YOU. I don't write to make money. I don't need your critiques." and so on and so forth I just...don't understand why people do that.

Being hurt or embarrassed or angry, I can understand to some extent. But it's the public reaction that I find perplexing. The declaration of how upset you are.

Abusive home life? Violent or rapey families? They've been previously targeted by bullies?

I've learned to give people the benefit of the doubt. Often when they seem unreasonably sensitive, there's a very, very good reason for it that I find afterwards I didn't want to know because it will be in my nightmares for years.

THIS.

A lot of people who are 'outside' of fandom and sometimes 'inside' of fandom that there are a lot of writers who write as a means of escape or therapy and not all of them choose to write the funny happy fluffy things route either. I was told multiple times in my high school career that given what I wrote and the tones of my author notes that no one would know unless they talked to me personally that my life was hell. Yes, and sometimes being told you are being too sensitive or are over sensitive, leads to the person being, surprise, too and over sensitive. Because we literally do not know what type of reaction will get us hurt (and don't get while we're in the thick of it that it is every reaction) so we lash out reflexively and defensively over things we love and do for fun because we want to be left alone to have what little good things we have in our otherwise shitty life.

Well this is something that we probably just aren't going to agree on. I think that people should have the right to say they don't want critiques without others trying to force them on them anyway. I think unwanted criticism is always not constructive because it can't possibly be helpful if it's not going to be read and considered, and I don't know why so many people waste their time giving criticism to people who don't want it and then complain that the people they say they're trying to help are being unreasonable. I hate when people act like writers have some kind of obligation to only ever write their absolute best and must be lectured when they've failed to live up to the standards of the critic. By all means, provide criticism when it's wanted, but people don't need to want it.

Basically, I feel similarly about the complaints of critics as you do about the complaints of the criticized.

Oh sure -- I think it definitely goes both ways.

But it's just that even though writers have the right to say that they don't want criticism, I can't help but to feel that it's almost counter-intuitive to publicly post about.

I doubt the people leaving the harshest, meanest reviews are really going to stop -- in general, when people are insulting the writer, they're doing it to get a reaction. Which is what these types of public proclamations are.

In practice it is counter-intuitive because you're right about how it ends up, but I don't think it should be that way. To drag out one of fs's favorite words, a lot of people are really entitled about leaving comments. "How dare you tell me you don't want to hear my opinion! I'm going to leave even more comments now!" It's so petty.

I think at least half the problem is that everyone arguing about it has different definitions of what 'critique' is.

From reading comments, I get the impression that some people take it to mean statements like "here is what is wrong and here is how you should fix it", while others mean "I didn't like the pairing/trope/other item clearly labeled in tags and summary", while still others mean "I was confused by/not really feeling/felt rushed by this bit".

So you get people who are using that third definition saying there's nothing wrong with crit and people using the second yelling about how it's just rude and people using the first saying it's not really helpful, and we're all left in this muddle of talking past one another.

This is true and definitely makes these arguments more frustrating. Though to be honest, my response stays the same no matter which of those definitions we're talking about. If a person says they don't want feedback, or a certain kind of feedback, then of course you still have the right to do it but it's nice to respect their feelings.

I absolutely agree that you should respect people's feelings about what kind of feedback they want.

My problem is with people trying to declare that their opinion of what kind of feedback is acceptable is the ONLY right way to do fandom. I did not sign your manifesto; please go sit down.

I would say to them: By all means, please put what you want to get on your fic. Just stop telling that person who may be reviewing MY fic next week what they can and can't say in ALL reviews.

Agreed. This sort of thing isn't really about what's right or wrong, just what each individual prefers, so those declarations are annoying.

People are different and some like to went online on their blogs or under a bad review, some like to went on Skype to their friends, some IRL tet-a-tet and some like to hold it in.
It's all good. I mean, an argument can be maid that speaking about things that upset you is healthier than the alternative. Expressing your feelings and all that.

To look more in depth as to why... I suspect the answer will be different for different people. To get a sympathy, to 'put in on the paper' getting your thoughts organized, as a shout out to the offending party, etc, etc.

I think it's interesting that you find it strange, anon, tbh.)

Edited 2015-03-11 01:17 (UTC)

I guess...this is going to sound very cynical but it's honestly what I think:

I don't understand why anyone posts their feelings online because 99% of the time, I don't think anyone really CARES.

Like, if an author gets upset, sure her fans will come to her defense and reassure her. But I don't really think that that's because they actually care about the author -- they just don't want her to get so upset that she stops writing fic or contributing to fandom.

Like, go ahead and get upset about bad reviews or how difficult your day was and all that. But I just think it's so pointless because you're just going to be feeding the trolls who are harassing you in the hopes of getting a reaction (which they've now accomplished) while the positive feedback you get from your followers is generally out of self-interest.

I guess I just don't believe that anyone legitimately cares and I find it odd that people post in the hopes of getting sympathy when all they'll do is amuse the trolls/haters and get ass kissing from their followers (not because they care but because they don't want the fic to dry up).

I don't know. My experience in fandom has been that no one cares about YOU. Fandom and followers care about what you PRODUCE -- the art, the gifs, the fic, the meta -- and they'll placate you so that they can keep getting it. But if you're part of the fandom and not really contributing anything? No one will give a shit.

I will sit in the cynical corner with you.

I'll also note that anyone who complains about a bad review generally gets not only sympathetic responses from friends but also an uptick in positive reviews.

Posting about personal things, including emotions - love and rage that the poster feels - forges a personal connection between the poster and the readers. So readers (or visitors) start to care about this person. They feel like they know them. They might strike a conversation, comment on some stuff with congratulations or condolences... This is in response to your last paragraph as well. Did you notice that some people don't create any fanworks or meta but still have a lot of friends, because they talk with people, comment on their stuff and, basically, network?

Even when it's just an A/N in a fic, many readers will feel for an author as long as they don't have a consumerist attitude, you know the one, the one when a reader tells "update soon, where's update, you should write about my fave char, write moar!".

BNFs are in a category of their own. Tons of people will defend them. Even when they're in the wrong. In my native tongue we call these defenders "hamsters". Hamsters agree with every word a BNF speaks, praise everything they do and run to their defence. I've seen this a lot in fandom, it's pretty funny.

About caring... Take me. I don't know how to connect to people on a personal level, so no on curr about my personal life just because - as long as it doesn't correspond with anything in their life, like, I don't know, a post about hating exams on a Finals week. But I know people who's personality shines in their online presence, people who are willing to share about themselves. Some people even write largely about their IRL, and people read them. >_> It's especially handy for multifandom folk who fandom hop a lot. People stay with them because they are interested in their life, their style and their personality.

And lastly to put something optimistic here, fans help other fans with their money. Often just because the person in need is in the same fandom/ship or some of your online friends know this person. I think it's awesome.

Edited (the SPAG are endless...) 2015-03-11 02:22 (UTC)

Thing is, if you never post stuff about yourself or how you feel, then people may consume your stuff, but you'll never actually connect with them. People like making friends in fandom, whether those friends are fair-weather or not. And it's a lot harder to make friends if you're standing off to the side, clutching all your cards to your chest and acting aloof.

Oh, I misinterpreted that nerve comment then. My bad!

As to the rest of your post, think it's because a lot of people have a lot of their identity tied up in their online presence. This is their primary source of validation for their creative efforts, and it's often a major source of social interaction for them, so it comes as a blow when someone says something really harsh to them.

In reality, it doesn't really matter much that one anon didn't like their fanfiction, but in the moment when they're reading it, it sours all the nice comments they got. It makes them doubt that everyone else was being truthful, makes them doubt their own skill level, etc etc.

If they don't keep that reaction in check, they find themselves writing novels about how upset they are. It's not a logical response by any means, but when someone leaves a comment that gets under your skin, it can make you act in really defensive and irrational ways. Then once they respond defensively once, all their friends come out to validate them for that, and it becomes a whole big messy emotional thing. Drama can be very emotionally rewarding, and I think that's why people start it over harsh reviews. It's easier to start a fight and get validation that way than it is to get over the hurt (petty though it is) on your own.

That was how it was for me anyways. I started shit a lot over negative reviews when I was younger and going through some stuff. I was getting bullied a lot in school, so having a bunch of people come to my defense online felt really good. I don't think everyone who pitches a fit over criticism is the exact same way, but I think the emotional reward of drama is a big factor.

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[ SECRET POST #2988 ]

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