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shahni.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-01-10 01:37 am
shahni.livejournal.com) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-01-10 01:37 am
[ SECRET POST #369]
⌈ Secret Post #369 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
- First comment is: Name That Fandom!!
- Can secrets please be worded like secrets? How to Write Secrets time, class! ♥
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #053.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [1] not!secrets, [1] not!fandom. [1] not posted about Boku no Pico (reason should be obvious), [1] repeat, [1] SEIZURES WTF
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Thursday, January 10th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: CLOSED.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
...Oh yeah, cause the Org is all just standing around having tea parties. o.O Definitely none of them attack Sora, kidnap any of his friends, erase his memories, or try to trick and manipulate him for their own schemes. Yep, all they want is to live and let live.
Look, I sympathize with the Organization, but they're not the innocents here against Sora the morally corrupt, not by a longshot. He doesn't go hunting them down--they attack him, and if you're going to argue with me next about how he ought to attempt to reason with them or something, may I remind you of his hesitance in fighting Demyx (he and Donald and Goofy encourage Demyx to leave rather than staying to fight) as well as his truce with Axel toward the end of the game? Naive black/white moral standing my butt--these people are trying to destroy the world. He's the Keyblade Master; he's been chosen to stop them. What is he supposed to do, sit around and let it happen?
And as for not caring much about anyone except his own little band of chums, did you perhaps miss the part where he went around purifying every world and helping Mickey/Leon/every Disney character from every world (except the villains, obviously) achieve their own goals and missions?
Disliking Sora is your perogative, but your logic for it entirely escapes me.
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not the innocents here against Sora the morally corrupt, not by a longshot.
Did I say that? I don't think I did. I don't think Sora is morally corrupt, just naive, which is not surprising, considering he's what? Fourteen, fifteen? I didn't say the Organisation were innocents, either. What I meant was, I found it hard to get behind the whole 'bad guy/good guy' thing that seems to run throughout the KH games (hello, light v. dark?) when the supposed villains are really only acting out of a desire to survive. Okay, so I can't remember the details, and sure, Xemnas probably had some supervillain ego thing going on (I can't remember - it's been a while, and most of the plot didn't make much sense to me anyway -__-), but, well... a little thought on Sora's part would have been nice. Just to show he acknowledged that he was killing actual people (heart or no heart), rather than the same old monsters he's been offing since the start.
Also, the bit with Axel I found really irritating... Sure, they make a truce, Axel does his big dramatic sacrifice thing, has his heartbreaking little speech, and then Sora just sort of... walks off. He doesn't seem affected in the slightest. I was like 'wtf just happened?'
Anyway. You seemed confused as to why someone might dislike him, and I gave you some reasons (namely, my reasons); you can argue as much as you like, but you're not going to change my opinion, or the reasons I have for holding said opinion. I'm sorry if it doesn't sit well with you.
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It does make sense, even if you don't agree with it (unless we played different games, which is possible, from the sound of it).
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This is why your argument continues to make no sense:
"when the supposed villains are really only acting out of a desire to survive."
Apparently we did play a different game, because they were "only acting out of a desire to survive" by KILLING PEOPLE and scraping for every last bit of power they could find. Xemnas may have been the mastermind behind the Kingdom Hearts scheme but the surviving members of Org XIII in KH2 (with the exception of Demyx and Axel) were behind him 100%. Their goals were not altruistic. They were controlling heartless to destroy people left and right to make more heartless, and using Sora to release the trapped hearts. Again, what was he supposed to do, sit around and let it happen? And I'm guessing you didn't play Chain of Memories because there wasn't a single Org member in that game who "only wanted to survive". They were not harmlessly existing, they were killing and manipulating and trying to control the people around them. You still seem to be ignoring that very vital fact while trying to paint Sora as being too quick to judge and kill them.
no subject
And, as I said to the other person further down in this thread, I realise they did have to be stopped (if for no other reason than to give Square some semblance of plot), but, you know, a little acknowledgement (from Sora) of what he was doing would have been nice. And no, I didn't play Chain of Memories. It seemed like a rip-off to have to buy a whole different console thing just to play one in-between not-really-sequel
it really pisses me off when developers do that... some of us can't afford more than one console D:I'm not painting him as anything. This is just how I perceived him when I was playing the game.
Guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree? Because seriously, I only wanted to point out why people might not share your love for him. I didn't want an argument (though usually I like fandomish debates).
no subject
Dont' get me wrong - I love the org to death, and I hope to god that in whichever game it gets explained that Nomura shows the Six Apprentices as initially good souls who become irreversiably corrupted by the power they attain... but they are, in the end, entirely amoral bastard villians. Including darling Axel and Demyx.
furthermore, as I have analyzed KHII further, I've come to the conclusion that what Xemnas was trying to do was not just get hearts back, but to remake reality in his own image. He repeatedly talks about "Creating a brand new world", not just, "and we can be whole again" like many of the other members do. Xemnas isn't stopping at hearts, he wants all creation. Just like Maleficent (who gets no love from the fandom. wtf is that? she's made of hyperconcentrated win and awesome.)
But I also agree that some acknowledgment from Sora, or possibly attempts to negotiate, to find some other way of giving them back their hearts, would have been better. Why join with Maleficent for god's sake? Why not get the Org to stop killing people, get rid of the Heartless that are already around , or find some other, more efficient way of getting new hearts?
fuck, the org can create fucking artificial hearts (like they gave to the Riku Replica), why not just do that?! *head -> desk*
But I also think the game is better for the ambiguity. Unlike in the first game, no one is right here, everyone's wrong and you know, it sucks. I just wish the game hadn't pretended like Sora was completely in the right all the time :\
... I could go on, actually, making grandiose claims about the influences of Japanese culture on the game (oh, the claims I could make about racism!) but I won't do that since that'll start a flamewar of epic proportions.
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Also I don't know who some of those characters are x_xWith the artificial hearts and Riku replica or whatever, I'll have to take your word for it. I haven't played that game.
I just wish the game hadn't pretended like Sora was completely in the right all the time
Now that was what really got up my nose. It's like we weren't supposed to notice our cute little hero was essentially running around hacking people to death with an oversized key. I guess they thought if they put enough sparkles and Disney references in, no one would spot it.
no subject
There were times during Chain of Memories that I had to sit back and go "Wait, isn't this a Disney game? o_O"
I think the best part is that despite the Org still being FAR more clearly amoral jerks, there's still a question of what's right and wrong in the game, and also of wether Sora's even acting of his own free will, or if he's -always- been a puppet and always will be. It's... ridiculously dark, for a Disney game.
If you can't buy it (it is very hard to find now) I suggest going and getting a Visual Boy Advance emulator and downloading the ROM. it's not that hard to find, and it also means that you can cheat with it (and do nice things like give yourself all the room cards so the game is less heinous.)
god, CoM is so fucking good and so ignored by the fandom.
no subject