[ SECRET POST #2990 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2990 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
(Transformers Prime)


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03.


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04.


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05.


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06.
(Transformers Prime)


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07.


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08.
[Wish / Clamp / Manga in this artstyle in general]


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09.
[Terry Pratchett]


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10.
[STRAIN: Strategic Armored Infantry]


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11.
[CSI Cyber]


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12.
[POTC & One Piece]


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13.
[Marvel Comics' Black Widow]


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14.
[James Corden, new host of the LATE LATE SHOW (and for DOCTOR WHO)]


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15.
[Harry Potter]


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16.
[Fallen London]









Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 017 secrets from Secret Submission Post #427.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

See I can understand if OP is frustrated by the lack of platonic/gen FANWORKS because I love those too.

But how in the world can you pretend that the depiction a deep, platonic bond between men is RARE?

It's the freaking most common, most written about and focused on relationship in media -- short of romance novels where it's the main heterosexual couple.

I just don't get it.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's written about but it tends to be written in an incredibly perfunctory way. To the point where I could understand someone not seeing it as an actual emotional bond, in most depictions.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

That is...pretty true. Not just perfunctory, but portrayed as something silly and childish and something that has to become secondary so that the protagonist can become a "real man" by falling in love with a woman. Or in a kind of wink-wink-lol-no-homo way.

But even so, actual serious platonic emotional bonds between male characters are STILL far more common than serious romantic emotional bonds between male characters.

[(Anonymous)]

If it's written about perfunctorily then that's just bad writing. Because when you compare it to other types of relationships, the relationships between men FAR AND AWAY get the best writing and most screentime.

Of these, which gets the best writing?

Fathers and sons
Brothers
Male best friends

Mothers and daughters
Sisters
Female best friends

Mothers and sons
Fathers and daughters
Opposite sex siblings
Opposite sex best friends

Heterosexual romance
Homosexual romance

etc.

If you look at that list, I PROMISE that fathers and sons, brothers, and male friendships BY FAR get the best writing. The only one that even comes close is heterosexual romance in romance novels/movies.

(Note that this excludes fanworks -- I'm focusing on popular media.)

[(Anonymous)]

saying "well-written platonic relationships between male friends are too rare" actually seems perfectly compatible with your point here, though? It could be the case that it is less rare than good relationships of other types, but still too rare.

(Also I might argue that het romances are probably written more centrally and with more examination than platonic male friendships, but I don't want to get into a big ideological argument about it)

[intrigueing]

I think you're both right. Platonic friendships are not written centrally enough. Gay romances are not written frequently enough. Both are not written well or seriously enough.

The underrepresentation is a lot more severe with gay romances IMO, but both of these issues are just different branches of the same problem -- the overwhelming idea that heterosexual romantic relationships are the be-all end-all of human existence, especially female existence.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I would certainly agree with that.

And I kind of suspect that even the writing of het relationships is probably worse than it could be because of that attitude. It's just a completely dumb attitude towards relationships in general. It's so dumb.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[intrigueing]

+1

Representation numbers of male-male relationships in fanworks and male-male relationships in canon are wildly different. (I personally think they're both on opposite unsatisfying extremes, at least in the fandoms I'm in.) And even in fanworks, female/female relationships of all kinds are still vastly underrepresented. They're the bottom of the totem pole.

[(Anonymous)]

na

I see what you mean.

I was also going to say it also depends on medium. For tv shows, it's REALLY common. I can think of many many great platonic male bonds. Whoever says it's lacking is.. I'm not going to believe them, like other people in this thread said.

But anime, for example, it's much rarer.

[(Anonymous)]

I would argue that about anime and say it depends on what genre you're looking at. Shonen manga, for example, is all about close male friendships, and those friendships are usually the central bonds with romance taking the back seat.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah, that's true - especially regarding sports. Friendship, rivalry, etc.

Although non-sports shounen is more on a case by case basis from the ones I've seen.

Some don't put development into the male/male friendships. They're just there, or "oh we met and fought and are now allies" and occasionally talk and the MC has a crush on a girl that is the central part of it.

And then ones like Bakuman (friendship build up- partnership central plot) seem more rare.

Do you have non-sports recs (all over them already) where the shounen is centrally about male/male relationships (doesn't have to be best friendship) if you don't mind? :D (I already plan on watching Hunter x Hunter)

[(Anonymous)]

Haha Hunter x Hunter is one of the ones I was going to recommend, actually! I tend towards the sports stuff too but off the top of my head:

Saiyuki - the definitive male/male relationship series in my mind. The relationships between the main four guys are the driving force of the story with the road trip/main plot being more of a background element.

Rave Master - this one has a bunch of different male/male relationship types to choose from (best friends, father/son, rivals) and I love them all. It has some cases of "we fought and you defeated me so now we're allies" but a lot of them have actual development and backstory behind them.

Pandora Hearts - the relationships in this one are incredibly well developed and play major roles in the plot as a whole. They're not just best friendships, either - there's a relationship between brothers and one between an uncle and nephew that are also important.

Yu-Gi-Oh - again, lots of solid male/male relationships of varying types that have plot importance. I would recommend starting with the first series or reading the manga, as that's where a lot of the friendship development happens between Yuugi and Jonouchi and Honda.

These next ones aren't specifically shonen but they've still got good relationships between guys:

Tiger & Bunny - this one is pretty much all about the relationship between Kotetsu and Barnaby and how it affects and changes each of them.

Wolf's Rain - another one with four main male characters where their relationships with each other are important to the plot.

Le Chevalier D'Eon - an older series but one that's got some solid male friendships in it. The four main characters even dub themselves "The Four Musketeers."

I'm sure I could come up with more if I really sat down and thought about it but these are just the ones that are freshest in my mind right now!

[(Anonymous)]

Yes that's true -- they're VERY common in TV shows, a lot rarer in books and very rare in non-war-movie films. But if you watch a lot of TV regularly and didn't notice the heavy sprinkling of male bffs everywhere, you need to check your eyesight.

[(Anonymous)]

This. I don't think it's a case where you never seen platonic male friendships in the media, but you rarely see them at more than a somewhat superficial level, with not a lot of screentime. It's also almost never the focus of a show or movie, unless it's something like "Band of Brothers", i.e. the war scenario the secret mentions.

[(Anonymous)]

na

Yeah, this.