[ SECRET POST #3005 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3005 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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05.
[Elvis]


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07. http://i.imgur.com/CH1fj94.gif
[moving gif]


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08.


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14.
[X-Files]


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15.


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16. [ SPOILERS for Welcome To Night Vale ]



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17. [ SPOILERS for Reign ]



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18. [ SPOILERS for Black Mirror ]



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19. [ WARNING for rape ]

[Batwoman]


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20. [ WARNING for suicide ]



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21. [ WARNING for pedophilia, incest ]



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22. [ WARNING for abuse ]



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23. [ WARNING for ableism ]
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #429.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

19. [ WARNING for rape ]
http://i.imgur.com/ASSWJFA.png
[Batwoman]

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like I'm missing some important context here, because I don't see what's so bad about this. I mean, villainous, yes, but that's the kind of thing some villains DO, right? What should I know that I don't?

[sarillia]

Well the villainous, manipulative bisexual is way overdone and I rolled my eyes at the "I haven't done this since college" line. There's also the issue of "you raped me!" "no, I didn't!", which is skeevy if it's treated as the truth and not just something this character is saying. But I feel like I might be missing something beyond this. Free of context it looks like pretty standard villain stuff.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Batwoman has repeatedly been hypnotized into sex and then made to forget it happened. Writer Marc Andreyko has stated that it's not rape. (Shades of Devin Grayson . . .)

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

God, I loved Devin's run until that bullshit. Even as written it was okay, but her saying it WASN'T rape and WASN'T Dick just acting like Dick and trying fix things instead of facing the problem was beyond gross.

Re: OP

[sarillia]

I was afraid it was something like that. That's disgusting.

Re: OP

[elialshadowpine]

Thank you for the explanation. I was confused, too, because the panels seemed... well, fucked up beyond all belief, but not necessarily rape, unless you're going at it from "the other character lied to her so Batwoman could not meaningfully consent" angle (and oh god, please don't start wank over this, anyone; I'm just twisting my head around trying to figure out where you might see that, and it's the only thing I can come up with)... which I thought you would have brought up in the secret if that's where you were coming from.

What you've explained here, however, makes a lot more sense. And it's fucking disgusting that it's a continual plot "device." Hypnosis, drugs, alcohol, coma... if you're in an altered state or unconscious, you can't consent... which is RAPE. I feel safe in saying that writer is an asshole.

Re: OP

[ozaline]

The other character is a vampire... so it's a glamor, except we're now saying the glamor only gives you a subtle push...

which yeah is a cop out. It's rape.

Re: OP

[insanenoodlyguy]

See that ruins it for me. I was kinda in the "well this is what an evil person would do (Kick her ass Batwoman!)" and could accept it as a bit of a fucked up cliche variant but then the writer had to taint the whole thing cause of fucking course it's rape.

[(Anonymous)]

The context is that DC's official stance outside of the comic is pretty much the same as the villain's.

[dethtoll]

I am so, so, so mad about this. I knew something terrible was going to happen after the original creative team ragequit. I just didn't think this would be it.

[submarine]

I stopped reading Batwoman shortly after Hydrology and I was really bummed to see how the series progressed. :/ Elegy was so good. Why.

[caerbannog]

I ragequit DS as a whole when the original team left Batwoman and I can see I'm not missing much in either the pale imitation of Williams III's art and Blackman's writing.

I can't think of the words - but so much contempt and disgust with DS is still lingering with me. That was the only comic I outright bought individual issues of (and when it happened the bound books).

I'm pissed at how they've ruined it, basically.

[insanenoodlyguy]

It really did get fucked. Should have just let the fucking marriage happen Dc

[caerbannog]

Yes :( I need more than just lgbti characters to buy a comic - good art and an appealing story line are also important. :C :C :C

Urgh so mad and how they've butchered it.


_{Just realised spellcheck made it all DS}

[(Anonymous)]

It wasn't rape, just sex she didn't consent to and didn't know she wanted until afterwards. DC's problem in a nutshell, they genuinely are pushing that line outside of the comics too.

[(Anonymous)]

What I've noticed from the Batwoman series is that it reads like the writers and editors really don't have much respect for lesbians.

I think this goes back to Rucka and Renee Montoya. It's like, "I'll make her a lesbian, it's such a terrible flaw, she can angst about it!"

I don't know, I don't really follow the book. But between the weird undercurrent of self-loathing and feeling like a freak in what I've read of it, and the characterizations and plot choices that get the attention, I wonder how rare they think dykes are.

I appreciate the drama hooks, but it comes off a little nasty to me. I think Palmiotti and Conner do better at girlfriends when they're just writing platonic buddies.

:(

[(Anonymous)]

DC at the moment has no respect for female characters in general. They have one or two good spots, Gotham Academy for instance, but mostly it is unremitting contempt and fetishization.

[caerbannog]

Elegy and a few following issues were so good and now it's ruined. /dramatic despairing to cover irritation

[lilacsigil]

Really? Montoya is a great character, and she angsted a lot more over her alcoholism and violence issues than over being a lesbian.

I generally agree with your points, though - there's a weird fetishistic tone to a lot of LGB characters at DC.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: Batwoman confronting Nocturna

Catwoman: So none of this was true? You don’t…love me?

Nocturna: Love you?

I don’t even like you. You were just so easy to snare. All your broken-hearted martyr-complex self0loathing…it was like a neon sign flashing, “OVER HERE!”

I couldn’t resist, after all those wrinkly, impotent old men, I figured, what the hell?

Batwoman: You used your powers to make me sleep with you?

Nocturna: I get that you wish that were true. No, Kate, that was all you. I’m no rapist. You wanted me, so I figured, “I haven’t done this since college, so why not?”

You are sexy, after all. Damaged, yes, but so much fun.

You wanted something raw. A lesbian Sid and Nancy thing. Kinky, yes?

But that was all yours. Remember what your sister said: hypnosis can’t make you do anything you don’t really want to do. Sleep on that, you damaged twit.

Secret Text: I can’t believe this was written, let alone published. I don’t even want to see the arguments over it, and I definitely don’t want to see someone try to defend it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah this (and the comments made at the time) was the reason that I stopped wanting to have anything to do with that series.

Fortunately there does exist a wide range of comics/graphic novels that are positive towards women.

[gabzillaz]

I simply pretend her run ended when the previous writers left tbh

[saturnofthemoon]

I had to drop the comic after the first rape scene. There's only so much my stomach can stand. It's sad, because I love Kate so much.

[(Anonymous)]

Mind control is a kink of mine, and I still found this storyline creepy and greatly disturbing. (Even more so than I usually find my kink -- I'll be honest, it's one that's got its issues.) It doesn't help that the author is clearly directly speaking to the fans here, and trying to justify putting DC's highest-profile lesbian in a situation where consent is, at best, very dubious indeed. (And 'at best' is giving it way too much credit.)