[ SECRET POST #3016 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3016 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 084 secrets from Secret Submission Post #431.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

16. http://i.imgur.com/8VGtVLS.png

[kallanda_lee]

I thought she was really cool, too. Honestly I didn't even know what racism was at that age;

[insanenoodlyguy]

She's the least racist of the lot though.

Warning: If you don't remember this or remember this movie except through nostalgia glasses, get ready to go "holy shit"

https://youtu.be/f7yE8TKUB_M

[(Anonymous)]

did that woman call wendy a vagina

[iceyred]

"This should be most enlightening." Proceeds with most racist song of the movie.

[houtarouh]

I find Disney's logic/double-standard funny: this is okay to be released on blu-ray ("Dumbo" also has stereotypes with the crows. Disney has also released the Nazi Donald Duck on DVD as well), but "Song of the South" and the uncut "Fantasia" can not be released to the public? At least Warner Brothers puts a warning on their blu-ray/DVD releases. While we understand that it's wrong, it was just the product of the times and to delete it from history makes it as if it never happened.

[(Anonymous)]

What have they cut from Fantasia????

[(Anonymous)]

probably the black slave centauress

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, pretty much, although probably less because she was a servant and more because her design is a 40s-style racist caricature.

[houtarouh]

That's the one. Sunflower the centaur was deleted because of the centaur being a racist caricature. You can watch that here.

However, another thing that was cut from "Fantasia" was Deems Taylor's original narration. You can read about that here.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I don't know what they're talking about because I have a copy of Fantasia that has the full version and mostly what it has extra is more description by the host of what each segment is going to include. None of the cartoons themselves have been cut down at all.

[(Anonymous)]

They're talking about this:

http://coilhouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/sunflower01.jpg

Which yes, WAS in the movie and has been cut out from release.
I love Disney and Fantasia, but it is important to remember that this stuff happened and I wish Disney would at least put it in a deleted scenes or something with a little intro about it like they did with the racist shorts. Hiding these things helps no one.

[(Anonymous)]

Disney did release their racist shorts though (My copy of Mickey Mouse in Black and White Vol 1 has them all in a separate part of the DVD with an intro by Leonard Maltin explaining why they're not in the playlist with the others and encouraging viewers to discuss it with their kids) while Warner Brothers has the banned 11 that have never seen the light of day.

That's just to clarify. I'm completely with you in that I wish both companies (all companies!) would just release this stuff instead of pretending it didn't happen. It sucks and it's awful, but it happened.

[(Anonymous)]

I still think she's really cool. It bums me out when peolpe bash her.

[othellia]

If it makes you feel better, I was super big fan of this Tiger Lily when I was a kid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVPc4SuoJWE

I still like the pseudo-feminist implications of her being the leader of her tribe and then her and woman!Peter Pan teaming up together against Captain Hook. I just wish it wasn't so, you know, racist.

[(Anonymous)]

Tiger Lily herself was cute. I mean, I don't know if SHE'S a caricature so much as "generic Indian maiden lady". The rest of the Indians in the movie definitely are caricatures and very racist though.

[(Anonymous)]

Except she's really not, though. She's what a young British boy of a particular time period would imagine, in his pretend world, a beautiful Indian maiden would be. I hate that there can be no room for innocence, imagination, or even context in a world where everything is OMG offensive.

[(Anonymous)]

A young British boy of a particular time period imagines a racist stereotype. It makes sense in context, yes, but it's still a racist stereotype. Innocence and imagination is all well and good, but I hardly think it's grievously injured by admitting that the Indians of Peter Pan are offensive to modern readers and watchers.

[(Anonymous)]

I get what you're saying, but historical context is a thing. We know now that kids never should have played "Cowboys and Indians", for example. It's innocent imagination, yes-- but it's an image based in a horrifically racist caricature embraced by society at the time. There's no excuse in perpetuating it.

[(Anonymous)]

Except she is. She's a fictional character written by an adult. And even if it were a real little boy's fantasy, that fantasy can still be racist. I mean, if I have fantasies about prancing around naked with Natives while they smoke and eat babies, but I enlighten them with my power to predict eclipses and they worship me as a god, does that make me not racist just because it's a fantasy?

Sure, a kid can have an innocent fantasy, but that doesn't mean his perceptions aren't racist stereotypes. I might not call the kid racist, but his fantasies definitely can be.

[houtarouh]

I liked Tiger Lily, but I liked Wendy too, because Wendy was pretty much level-headed like Alice (ironically, they're both voiced by the great Kathryn Beaumont). Tinkerbell on the other hand, was not my favorite growing up. She's pretty mean to Wendy (well she was jealous) and revealed the location of Peter Pan's hideout to Hook. It's such a departure for me since I've thought of Tinkerbell as "nice", because I saw "Hook" first back in 1991 before I saw Disney's Peter Pan in 1997 as a child growing up.

[tabaqui]

You should read the book. Tinkerbell is kinda worse, but then - so is Peter.

[ozaline]

The idea with Tinkerbell in the original book is that her body is so small she can only hold one emotion at a time, so her emotions always get the best out of her. It's not a statement on femininity at least, it's a fairy thing.

But if you think she's bad, Peter would turn on his own Lost Boys if the Pirates were loosing too badly cause he'd get bored.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: Tiger Lily from the animated version of Peter Pan, tied up in the back of a boat

Text: When I was a kid I thought she was really cool, and I wrote a bunch of stories about her having adventures.

S!B she’s a racist caricature.

[(Anonymous)]

Yikes. All I remembered before I watched the clip noodly posted was that I way preferred Tigerlilly over Wendy when I was a kid. I thought Tigerlilly was badass and Wendy was kind of a stuck up priss.