fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3034 ]

[ SECRET POST #3034 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3024 ⌋

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So there's some academics and other scholarly types here, so maybe you guys can give me advice?

I recently applied to two PhD programs, one in the state uni I am currently in, one at a fancy private school. I got into both.

Here's my quandary:

I just heard today that the fancy private school offered me a pretty substantial teaching assistant position, which will give me a generous stipend, tuition remittance, and covers 4 years. This is extremely good financial motivation.

The university I am currently at has some very pleasant, engaging professors who all like me, know me as a scholar, and a few have been nice enough to look into funding opportunities for me. I'm more emotionally invested in this university, as I have been here for 3 years, and know all the faculty in my dept. But they can't offer me funding, at least not this year.

The solution should be obvious: go where the money is, because graduate school ain't cheap. But I also don't want to seem like I'm shitting my university, because they have given me loads of opportunities.

Thoughts? Advice?

Take the fancy private school. Do your four years, then come back and try for a tenure position at your current place. Even if that doesn't work out, the fancy private place will open more doors for you and give you a better chance at future happiness than your current place. It sucks, but there you are. And if your current place does not snap you after you've gone and brung them the prestige and connections associated with having a member of staff who went to private fancy place, then they are pretty dumb. It'd benefit both you and them in th elong run.

+1 Thanks for the viewpoint. And yeah, this was partly my feeling on this too, because the fancy private school also has a more rigorous curriculum, and global prestige, so it just makes more logical sense to do this, because as you said: door opening. Regardless of any sentimentalism I possess for my current school, I should be practical about my future.

Tbh, two of the long-tenured professors in my department graduated from this fancy private school. There seems to be good precedence for getting fancy degree, then working at the uni I'm in now.

Well, you have precedent on your side. That means that if you do the same thing, then it'll be a tradition. Soon it'll not be the odd thing, but the completely normal thing. People will naturally just do sometime at current place, go to fancy place as tradition, and then back to current. Then one day, in a few decades time, someone won't want to do that, and there will be an uproar for breaking with the tradition that you'll have started. Remember, if one person does it then it is a choice, if two or three do it, then it is a tradition, so go for it.

Not a grad student, but...

Is there something in particular about any of these professors that makes you think they would disapprove of your accepting an substantial TA position with a 4-year tuition remittance and a great stipend? Do you have reason to think they would regard it as "shitting on your university" to go where you're going to be funded and have a great opportunity to develop professionally?

Because I do recall one of my professors speaking with some disapproval of one of his own former grad students who had done both his masters and his PhD at our school and in the same department. The professor felt that it was important to step away from what you were used to, rather than continue to study the same stuff in the same department under the same instructors. Your professors might agree.

I think it's mostly being territorial and proud of their own department? (Which, I can understand, they have a pretty good teaching staff, with some pretty solid theoretical and applied approaches, but they've been kind of unstable with funding and professors.)

Plus, two of the professors (one of whom is pretty vocal about students not going to fancy private school for the same program) got their PhD from said fancy private school, so it's not like it's unheard of.

I think part of it might be that they see my worth as a scholar and would like me to contribute to my current department, so that they can work towards being prestigious, but right now I don't think they could raise any more than a few thousand to fund me.

I hope they see me as trying to broaden my horizons, rather than being traitorous to our department.

Wait, this person got their PhD from a fancy private school and is down on students for doing the same? lol the hypocrisy!

Also, what kind of person would seriously expect you to put the (potential) prestige of their department ahead of your own financial security?

Not just any fancy private school, but from the very one I applied to. His logic is that they don't have as good a program as my current uni's (which is the uni he also teaches in).

The problem is that he graduated his PhD from this school roughly 30-some years ago, and as this is a heavily maths/engineering school, they've updated significantly to have a lot of their social and fine arts programs be interdisciplinary with like computer science, engineering, etc. Like, you know. A lot of fields that experienced huge developments in the 20 years he's been away from that program, to address current social trends. Like, you know. The fucking internet (which my current uni is very not good at incorporating into research).

The second is a very good question, and one I'm going to hold onto. Because one of the people who's been vaguely guilting me about the fancy private school has admitted to partly using me for his own prestige to stay in the unfunded uni. There's a new school in my uni being set up for crisis/emergency research, which is my field, and he wants me to stay so that he can get good leverage, with some vague hints that I might get funding in the future? Maybe? (This spooks me, because I have lost 3 projects due to the black hole of funding cuts, so I am very leery of maybes.)

The only thing that I would worry about is that you know you will do well/enjoy the place you are at currently, but will you enjoy/do well at the fancy private school? For college (so not the same as you exactly), I got into Amherst and loved the idea of it. I loved my weekend visit there. However, they didn't offer me a lot of money and it would have been a strain on me and my family to go there. So I chose the college that gave me a lot more money instead. (I didn't choose the one that would have given me a free ride, as I think I would have been miserable there.) And I didn't hate it, but I don't think it was the best choice for me, and I really regret going there.

I know being in grad school debt is awful (believe me, I know, as I have a lot of it myself), but it is also important to consider the experience you will have as well.

Good luck with the decision and with your grad schooling!

I also worry about the curriculum change along with the atmosphere change. I worry that there will be some additional stress put on me, as the fancy school is a math/engineering school, and I am studying a social science there. Plus, there's a much higher men:women ratio, so I'm also kind of worried about everything that goes along with that...

And yeah, I'm also worried about just plain not liking it. But I'm also worried about being a dumbass and essentially turning down a free ride in a PhD program, to stick with a program in my comfort zone that has historically bobbled funding for me.

I'm kind of afraid that I don't have the luxury or privilege of saying, "Sure, I can go another 40K in debt for my PhD program." I'm already probably that for my MA, and while I have a smidgen of personal funds to do the bare minimum of credits at the state uni without going into repayment on all my loans, it will drain me by the year's end.

Unless the state uni can find me funding. Which has been historically soul-destroying for me. So yeah; I'm not sure if I have the financial privilege of bowing to comfort or sentimentality. :(

Current grad student here, who also had choices and offers of funding. My experience says go with the funding. Grad school is almost prohibitively expensive. Even your stipend might not go as far as you think, if the school has mandatory but not free health insurance, fees not covered by funding, etc. In terms of your future career, it's also important to consider how you "launch". That fancy private school will more likely offer you a better launch; your connections will be with other fancy private school people, which means you'll be ahead of the curve come job hunting time. Finally, as I'm sure you know if you've already gotten your MA, grad school is insanely stressful. Anything that can help alleviate that stress, like pinching fewer pennies, is probably better for your performance and well-being. Also, you can list that funding on your CV, which makes you look better to future employers. And of course, having connections at two schools instead of only one will give you more opportunities to collaborate and a larger network when it's time to look for a career.

All that said, how you fit really matters. Clearly the fancy school thinks you'll fit, but your current school knows you do, and you like it there! That matters. Wherever you end up, you have to be able to work with those people in that environment for several years. If you honestly believe your current school is the kind of environment you can't bear to part with, consider applying for external funding through grants, etc. Assume you'll have to pay entirely out of pocket and look into the real costs of this, including tuition, fees, and whatever it's going to cost to actually eat and keep a roof over your head, and see if it seems manageable. If you don't have any/much debt already, it might be worth it to stay. If you do, though, or if those costs are just too much to bear, or if you don't think you can balance a job with PhD work (many people can't; this isn't a failing but a reality check), I say go for the fancy school. But if you're committed to this current school and it's worth the costs, see what kind of support you can get and might reasonably need.

You bring up some really good points. Grad school is definitely prohibitively expensive, and I'm at least 40K in debt for my MA right now, on top of what's left over from my BA. And yeah, there are definitely fee and insurance junk not covered in tuition that would come out of the stipend.

You're also very right re: connections at both areas, and not something I had really considered. The fancy private school already gave me a boost when I worked there as a researcher for a year, so they already knew my name and rep, and this helped in getting a full ride for the PhD. And I hadn't thought of listing the stipend on my CV! Good tactic.

And YES for the stress alleviation aspect. Funds and taking out loans have always been a huge stress point for me, and I know that being financially secure will go a long way in soothing stress. Tbh, up until this very day, I had been assuming for about 4 months I would having to pay out of pocket for the state uni. I've been sounding funding sources, applying for jobs, asking professors if they can spare any money. I've even perfectly rationed out my bank account so I have enough for rent, minimal food, and bare minimum of tuition, in hopes that the 16/17 school year will be better.

I haven't been thinking about my attachment to my current school in those terms. You are right in that I fit there, and I'm comfortable there, and that I am nearly going blind with the fancy uni. It would probably go a long way if I went there in person and met some of the faculty, staff, and fellow students.

To be entirely honest, I think I can definitely handle working and PhD-ing at the same time. For my MA, I was doing 9-12 credit hours, while working 30-40 hours a week. Granted, I don't know what this new school will be like, but they're willing to go to bat for me, if they're offering me this fuckton of stipend.

But-- in the end, I just hope that if the fancy new school ends up going down the shitter, my old school will have me back. I'm committed to my field now, and I'll go where the research and money takes me.

Absolutely go check out that other school! :) I see in an above comment you said it's STEM-focused, but I'm also a social science person at a STEM school. The reality here is that while big data and STEM rule the uni, within my college and department it's much more diverse. I'm pretty heavily qualitative and interpretivist, so this is extra important, but I've still felt very nurtured within my department itself. If you have concerns about this, I think it's absolutely fair to ask the profs and students you might be working with what their take on it is. Ask about epistemological stances and how they navigate working at a school that prioritizes a discipline that isn't always friendly to your own. Their answers might give you a better feel for how you'll fit. It's the department that you'll have to work with, not the university (for the most part). Itll also help you feel around for potential mentors. It's been my experience that even at times when the whole department doesn't quite "get" what I'm doing, having a couple professors at my back is really important. I know my peers have felt similarly about their own mentors. So making sure you've got at least one person who really gets you, whether it's your topic, research methodology, or epistemology, goes a long way in dealing with the other pressures.

go to where the money is. That's a fantastic opportunity.
You don't "owe" your first university any loyalty- you paid, they educated you, they offered you opportunities - but there's a better one available. I've seen far too many students stick with ridiculously underpaid or unpaid positions just because they felt attached to faculty members rather than trying to branch out and broaden their horizons & earning potential.
Later, when you have your shiny new degree and are in a financially more stable bargaining position, you can always return if a position is available there.
Also - going to two places looks better on your resume for the future. It means you were accepted and successful in more than one environment. Getting all of your degrees in one place can be a sign of a sort of "echo chamber" situation where candidates are told they're awesome just because they're playing into whatever pet projects the faculty has there, rather than that they're able to work more broadly in a field. that's not always the case of course, but I know I get a bit leery-eyed at resumes where all a persons academic experience is in only one spot, or worse yet, with only one particular prof.

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[ SECRET POST #3034 ]

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