fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3047 ]

[ SECRET POST #3047 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3047 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

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03.

[Suzanne from Orange is the New Black]

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04.

[Soul Caliber V]

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05.

(Rick and Morty)

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06.

[Love The Way You Lie - Eminem feat. Rihanna]

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07.

[Bones]

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08.

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09.

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10.

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11. [SPOILERS for Grimm]
[WARNING for rape]

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12. [WARNING for rape]

[Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby]

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13. [WARNING for incest/underage]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #435.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I've seen a lot of mention about Whedon lately. What happened exactly?

Does anything really need to have happened?

(As far as I can tell, AoU was insufficiently feminist, and Whedon quit Twitter in response to the criticism as a result)

Buzzfeed, of all sites, has his explanation of that: http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/joss-whedon-on-leaving-twitter#.myrw42550

It's not that AoU was insufficiently feminist (though it couldn't be called a feminist film), but there was one particular line--Black Widow directly comparing being a sterile woman to being a monster--that was deeply offensive, particularly from a feminist perspective but also just....from a person perspective.

No. See below.

I took her "monster" line to mean that she had be successfully turned into a more ruthless assassin by sterilization. And that she resents that her awful creators were correct. Sterile assassin = monster, not sterile woman (general) = monster.

Mostly I just found it amusing that they were doing that scene while ScarJo was pregnant.

No. It was "Sterile woman = Nothing to live for = Nothing to stop her becoming a brutally efficient killer = Monster"

It's all horribly sexist, but the "Sterile woman = Nothing to live for" is particularly bad.

No, it wasn't. It was exactly what the above poster said. In order to make you correct, you would have to ignore everything that was said before and after the, "I was sterilized" part.

This, to be fair, is darkly hilarious.

You will have to be specific. as you say, there's a /lot/ of ground to cover.
We can go all the way back to the /last/ avengers film if you need to

Newish stuff.

I heard he made some weird comments about his working relationship with Marvel so I'm wondering if anyone knows of any behind-the-scenes gossip. Also, I heard he got rid of some Twitter(?) account and I was wondering why. And the what the anon here said: what new allegations of sexism are on him?

Just what's come up lately?

He had Black Widow, a female character who's never shown any signs of wanting children, call herself a monster because she can't have any. It doesn't make him a Totally Evil Sexist, but it's pretty icky any way you slice it.

No. She didn't say she was a monster because she couldn't have children.

She was a monster because she was raised to be a killing machine. So much so, that she was sterilized. She only mentioned being sterilized to empathize with Bruce who will also never be able to have children.

Mmmmm, I agree that there are a few potential readings of the line, and yours is one of them. But I don't think it's the only reading, and I think the connection between sterility and monstrosity was made uncomfortably direct. Why did Whedon choose the ability to bear children, of all things, for Bruce and Natasha to latch onto to describe themselves as monsters? Why, for the love of God, is sterilization necessary to turn a woman into a killing machine?

Unforgivably sexist? Well, not necessarily. Irresponsibly problematic writing? Yeah, I think so.

It's also worth considering how that line might well read to people who ARE in the position Natasha was describing as making her a monster. I've heard a few sterile women expressing a LOT of discomfort with the line, and I'd imagine that's a feeling shared by other people who can't, for whatever reason, have children.

Re: Question

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-09 00:15 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Question

kallanda_lee - 2015-05-09 01:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Question

solticisekf - 2015-05-09 02:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Question

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-09 04:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Question

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-09 00:15 (UTC) - Expand

c/p

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-09 00:25 (UTC) - Expand

Re: c/p

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-09 00:30 (UTC) - Expand

No, he didn't. Jesus. People who say this are completely ignoring the entire scene but that one little part.

Look, she was talking about the lengths she went through in the Soviet program in order to become a spy/assassin. The final tests were that she had to kill someone and then become sterilized. To become a weapon that could only takes lives and not give them. To also not be able distracted by anything else but the mission. Like being distracted by a family. It wasn't, "Boo hoo, I can't have children." It was, "I was willing to do anything, to go through anything for the mission. That's why I am monster. I am an efficient weapon."

Honest to God, I have never seen a movie be so misinterpreted like this one. It's like people are willing to go at grand canyon lengths to find a reason to hate Whedon.

If you want a reason to hate this movie how about hating it for it is, just one long, weak set up for The Civil War. It was less of an Avengers movie and more like a prologue for the third wave of Marvel movies.

The internet overreacted because someone wasn't 100% perfect.

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(¬_¬)

We both know that's not true. The movie was objectively a mess structurally, and a character who had previously never ONCE expressed an interest in children or having a family declared herself a "monster" upon mentioning, through tears, that she was sterilized. This because a pregnancy or baby is the "only thing," in this film's eyes, that could tear this woman--who, in Iron Man 2, The Avengers, and <Captain America: The Winter Soilder never ONCE even hinted that she wanted children or a traditional family--away from killing. A biological child. This happened while another character's never-before-seen, eternally supportive farmer wife was cooing lovingly from her perch, barefoot and heavily pregnant in the kitchen.

Same anon: tf happened w/ formatting I'm very sorry, but my point stands

+1000

No.

Tony Stark threatening to rape Asgardian women if he can lift Thors hammer.

Thor laughs at this.

Another reference to how Thor is the uber-alpha masculine man that all the women are totally in lust with because women are stupid and just like muscular blond guys.. Even professional women who acknowledge they have better things to be doing "I'm a professional scientist on the cutting edge of my field. I do not go to parties... er... Will Thor be their *LITERAL FUCKING LIP BITE*".

Outright stating almost word for word that women who cannot reproduce have nothing to live for, that is why they are better killers. Being infertile makes you a monster.

Hawkeye keeping a women secluded on a farm and using her as a baby making machine.

Natasha being such a good feminist that she calls a baby a "Traitor" for being male "Hurr Hurr, Feminists hate men, rite guis!"

The camera being fixed directly down the top of a teenage girl literally whenever she was on screen. The camera angles they managed to get to justify keeping Wanda's tits front and center in the shot were deeply unfeasible.

Natasha, the closest these films have ever come to having a fully developed worthwhile female character, who had a semi-decent roll in the last movie, was reduced to the hulks love interest. Her non-fighting scenes were flirting and angsting with Hulk.

That last one is APART from the fact that she is kidnapped halfway through the film and needs to be rescued by Bruce. Not hulk. The unpowered Bruce came to her rescue.

Lastly there was that one extra, I've been calling her titty!extra, who ran, screemed, and giggled, and yet the cameraman magically kept finding her.

Since when has Tony been a good person? Though I thought Thor was more laughing at the idea that Tony would ever be "worthy" to lift the hammer with that line of thought.

And? So? If Thor was going to be at a party, I'd go. Thor's hot.

Natasha was repeating what the Red Room believed, you know, the bad guys who raised her to be an assassin.

What. No seriously, what.

That was, what we call on earth, a "joke".

I didn't notice? You may be right on this one, but I genuinely didn't see this happening.

Eh, point, I didn't think she was completely reduced, but I do wonder, if Scarlett hadn't been pregnant, if Natasha would have gotten more action.

And she also lead them to the city where Ultron was going to make shit go down, so...

Who?

"Even professional women who acknowledge they have better things to be doing "I'm a professional scientist on the cutting edge of my field. I do not go to parties... er... Will Thor be their *LITERAL FUCKING LIP BITE*"."

Really? Even professional women lust over people. And it wasn't like she was being asked to go to a business meeting. It was a party and sometimes WHO is at a party helps you decide if you are going to go or not.

"Outright stating almost word for word that women who cannot reproduce have nothing to live for, that is why they are better killers. Being infertile makes you a monster."

Where was this said? She was a monster because Red Room made her a killing machine. Not because she was sterlized. Learn what empathy is.

"Natasha being such a good feminist that she calls a baby a "Traitor" for being male "Hurr Hurr, Feminists hate men, rite guis!"

Joke because she wanted the baby named after her. Learn what jokes are.

"The camera being fixed directly down the top of a teenage girl literally whenever she was on screen. The camera angles they managed to get to justify keeping Wanda's tits front and center in the shot were deeply unfeasible."

She was filmed as much as anyone else with a focus on the top of her. Generally, when ppl talk you focus on their face. Learn what cinematography is.

"Natasha, the closest these films have ever come to having a fully developed worthwhile female character, who had a semi-decent roll in the last movie, was reduced to the hulks love interest. Her non-fighting scenes were flirting and angsting with Hulk."

Why don't you say the Hulk was reduced to HER love interest? Hmmmmmm?

All the other points are also stupid, but these were the most stupid.

Hawkeye keeping a women secluded on a farm and using her as a baby making machine.

Natasha being such a good feminist that she calls a baby a "Traitor" for being male "Hurr Hurr, Feminists hate men, rite guis!"

That's it. You literally don't talk to people offline (maybe aside from pithy comments to your mom)

OK, no, fuck you.

Let's take this line-by-line.

Even professional women who acknowledge they have better things to be doing "I'm a professional scientist on the cutting edge of my field. I do not go to parties... er... Will Thor be their *LITERAL FUCKING LIP BITE*".

-- so professional women should only be focused on their Job and if they express interest in a guy they're betraying The Cause? lol no.

Outright stating almost word for word that women who cannot reproduce have nothing to live for, that is why they are better killers. Being infertile makes you a monster.

-- this line was poorly written, IA, and there were some problems with this scene. but this is not the only way it can be interpreted.

Hawkeye keeping a women secluded on a farm and using her as a baby making machine.

-- nope, you can fuck right off with that bullshit. mothers are more than 'baby making machines'. fuck you.

Natasha being such a good feminist that she calls a baby a "Traitor" for being male "Hurr Hurr, Feminists hate men, rite guis!"

-- ...what?

The camera being fixed directly down the top of a teenage girl literally whenever she was on screen. The camera angles they managed to get to justify keeping Wanda's tits front and center in the shot were deeply unfeasible.

-- IA with this, the fanservice is kind obvious sometimes in these movies. (not as bad as comics, though, but still ugh.)

Natasha, the closest these films have ever come to having a fully developed worthwhile female character, who had a semi-decent role* in the last movie, was reduced to the Hulk's* love interest. Her non-fighting scenes were flirting and angsting with Hulk.

-- this WAS a kind of baffling choice, but I don't think her having a romance with Bruce reduces her to just a love interest. we got backstory scenes for both of them. i enjoyed hearing about her past in the Red Room.

Lastly there was that one extra, I've been calling her titty!extra, who ran, screemed*, and giggled, and yet the cameraman magically kept finding her.

-- you are overanalysing things.

honestly, a lot of your opinions are outright sexist. $10 says you're just a troll masquerading as a feminist.

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I know this is a troll but...

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