fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3056 ]

[ SECRET POST #3056 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3056 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Does he reject the term but not the fundamentals like equality? Because "feminist" is a dirty word in this country largely due to the acts of anti-feminists.

*throws up hands in exasperation*

SORRY I'M SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT

Please don't pretend that some groups of feminists are not massive assholes. You are just letting them get away with their shitty behavior because you don't want to admit that some feminists are bad.

lol

I'll be the first to admit that there is a negative element in feminism, even aside from the fact that western feminism is by nature western-centric with a white academic bent. But none of that is relevant to what I just said.

Shhhh. It'll be okay.

"Because "feminist" is a dirty word in this country largely due to the acts of anti-feminists."

That is bullshit. It is largely due to the groups of radfems that do things like laugh at abusing men, ignore male rape, say that transpeople are A) Fakers or B) Gender traitors, harass/doxx underage people on Tumblr, calling things like a guy's shirt oppression, exploiting the death of women like Maren Sanchez for a political agenda, making staged videos of harassment and saying they are real.

I mean when some of the biggest feminist leaders say stuff like this:
“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

“All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression.” — Sheila Jeffrys

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist” — Ti-Grace Atkinson

This isn't even getting into the hellish nightmare that is political lesbianism. Which brings with it the idea that heterosexual women who engage in sex with men are BETRAYING their race. Or the fact that some feminists think you can just decide that you are a lesbian if it supports your political views.

nooooo stahp

it's true that feminism has plenty of excesses but this is stupid stuff, particularly the bullshit with the quotes

Oh my, you're trying very hard, but you showed your hand too early.

5/10, good effort but drag it out a bit longer before you hit me with the "zomg early 2nd-wave feminism" clobber quotes.

You've used the same argument against religion before IIRC. That radical groups like WBC are radicals, but Christians can't merely dismiss them as not-true-Christians and say they have nothing to do with them. Why do radical feminists and feminism not fall under the same guideline?

I'm not that anon- for me I think it's both radfems and anti-feminists feeding off each other back and forth that are ruining the feminist label. I see where anon is coming from though.

Because Dethtoll is a hypocrite?

Or because he is one of those hardcore atheist assholes.

AYRT

I only want to talk about an idea, that of groups and group responsibility and how to treat it.

Use someone else's thread as an excuse to make attacks.

Ain't no dogma like no dogma <3

Apples and oranges. You're comparing a religious philosophy -- one that despite schisms over details, still shares largely the same major elements from one sect to another -- to a far more fractious political and social philosophy and movement.

And I never said that radfems weren't true feminists. They are feminists. The problem is that feminism as a movement has a lot of differing viewpoints that have far greater variance on core philosophies than most religious sub-organizations.

It's impossible for feminism to distance itself from its radical element any more than religious organizations can. The difference is that outside of some very basic tenets -- ending sexual violence, for example -- there are no central "rules" or beliefs that one must follow (which some would argue is an anti-feminist idea anyway) whereas Christianity as an organized religion struggles with contradictory dogma that is impossible to follow to the letter for legal, moral and logical reasons, despite that dogma insisting that it must be followed to the letter.

I agree with you that radfems give anti-fems plenty of ammo. But AYRT is a troll bringing up early 2nd-wave feminism in an attempt to be confrontational and inflammatory, but those same people in the quotes are largely ignored or discredited today simply by dint of their views being outdated and extreme. They aren't Popes of Feminism and their views were their own, and shouldn't be assumed to apply to all of feminism like AYRT was trying to imply.

Edited 2015-05-17 23:31 (UTC)

you can't even pretend that mainstream audiences have heard any of these quotes– the reason feminists are derided are because of people like Rush Limbaugh coining charming terms like "feminazi" and the media making all feminist protests and issues sound like petty nonsense. you're grossly overestimating the power and vocal reach feminist women have if you think that they're able to spread even a radical message far enough for it to be heard. anti-feminist shitbags like Limbaugh are the ones getting their message out, and associating any radical things a handful of feminists say with the entire movement.

and, you know, people on the outside who want to act like radfems represent all of feminism despite mainstream feminists saying they don't.

every ideology has radicals. you can either acknowledge they exist and then ignore them, or you can continue to shout about how they are there, gasp, and in the process you do, in fact, do more to damage the main group's reputation than the main group itself because you are actively equating the radicals with the rest.

oh for fuck's sake

some groups of EVERY IDEOLOGY EVER are massive assholes, and WE ALL KNOW THIS.

Also, it's perfectly reasonable to ask "is he actually okay with the core ideas of feminism (i.e. gender equality, social progress, understanding that sexism exists) or is he against them?".

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3056 ]

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