[ SECRET POST #3062 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3062 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #438.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Not the OP, but I look at it this way: being a dedicated older wave feminist really isn't the same thing as being a modern day feminist. Look at some portions of the suffragette movement, who were all about women's voting rights... but not necessarily for women of color. So if someone in the present day fit the definition of a feminist by suffragette standards, there are many who'd still consider them well short of the mark because their definition is dated enough where it no longer feels applicable to feminism, in their view.

[(Anonymous)]

But 20 years makes you dated in a comparable way?

Really?

And OP doesn't really even launch any criticisms of that nature at Whedon - it's just "well meaning but insufficient".

[(Anonymous)]

I used an example with a wider historical gap so it's more conspicuous of a difference, but otherwise I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. You don't think twenty years is sufficient enough time for viewpoints to change so much that what was progressive then seems less so now?

[(Anonymous)]

20 years is a whole new adult. That is a big gap.

And not everything dates at the same rate. We've seen some big changes in how women are presented and how women's roles have changed, socially and on screen, Joss was not exceptionally ahead of the curve even back in the 1990s. He was doing 80s action girl roles only with less makeup and shorter participants. Not to mention his mommy issues that pervaded almost every project he did, and that a lot of his feminist issues were done via a male lead's reaction to them.

He was in the middle of the curve in mid 1990s, and he hasn't really changed his story telling tropes since. We're now in the mid 2010s, that leaves him quite a bit behind the curve now. Sorry dude, but that stuff got stale.

[(Anonymous)]

Marry me. Or have a fling. Or order some pizza and watch movies with me. Whatever suits you. I've been saying this about Whedon for YEARS.

[(Anonymous)]

Hardly an original or particularly rare opinion. I hope you have a large pizza.

[(Anonymous)]

This is a very good post.

[sabotabby]

Well said.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, this. Honestly, it'd be more surprising if Buffy wasn't dated. It first aired in 1997 and it ended over a decade ago, and it wasn't necessarily groundbreaking stuff even at the time.

[dethtoll]

20 years is a long time.

[(Anonymous)]

You're trying to be reasoned, but that's a silly view. What passes for feminism right now reminds me of old school paternalism.
'There. There, little lady. Let the big strong man protect you from all of life's scary stuff!'

Fah! Seriously. What exactly is empowering about needing to be protected from ... pretty much everything including applause?

[(Anonymous)]

you're really pushing this line pretty goddamn hard, aren't you

[(Anonymous)]

If you think I'm the poster from below, you're mistaken. We just have similar views on what passes for contemporary feminism. In all sincerity, what is being put forth is seriously retrograde, and I'm truly sorry that you can't seem to understand how damaging it is.

[(Anonymous)]

Not as sorry as I am that you don't actually understand what feminism is

[(Anonymous)]

You're doing your best to sell this whole "modern femimism baaaaaad!" thing, but it's so transparently trollish nobody's buying. Maybe it's time to quit while you're... well, not ahead, but at least not as far behind as you could be if you kept going?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm wondering if it is a 60s feminist that is pushing this line, because after the GamerGaters, they are the ones that hate modern feminism the most for not being as insular as it used to be.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's far more likely to be someone who simply doesn't like feminism of any flavor at all and thinks this is a good way to discredit it.

[(Anonymous)]

Nailed it.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000000

Exactly this.