[ SECRET POST #3062 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3062 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #438.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm confused here. It'd be one thing if you didn't think JW was a feminist. But that's clearly not what you think, because you call him a feminist right there in the damn secret - you just disagree with some of his understanding of feminism.

So... if you agree that JW is a feminist, why does it bother you for Mark Ruffalo to say so?

Also, do you really, *really* hold to the idea that just being a different kind of feminist than you makes someone indefensible?

[(Anonymous)]

It is busy because Joss Whedon is a) male b) tumblr's newest hateboner recipient (John Green must be relieved).

[diet_poison]

lol, why does tumblr hate John Green?

[(Anonymous)]

He's a white cis male?

[(Anonymous)]

I hate John Green.

[(Anonymous)]

Most of the 20 somethings on Tumblr who are raising a stink have being hating on Whedon for a looong time, nothing recent about it. People have been discontent with his efforts since the mid 2000s. This drama just brought it all to a head.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't enjoy him in the late 90s, either. Buffy never struck me as nearly as progressive as he said it was.

[(Anonymous)]

Not the OP, but I look at it this way: being a dedicated older wave feminist really isn't the same thing as being a modern day feminist. Look at some portions of the suffragette movement, who were all about women's voting rights... but not necessarily for women of color. So if someone in the present day fit the definition of a feminist by suffragette standards, there are many who'd still consider them well short of the mark because their definition is dated enough where it no longer feels applicable to feminism, in their view.

[(Anonymous)]

But 20 years makes you dated in a comparable way?

Really?

And OP doesn't really even launch any criticisms of that nature at Whedon - it's just "well meaning but insufficient".

[(Anonymous)]

I used an example with a wider historical gap so it's more conspicuous of a difference, but otherwise I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. You don't think twenty years is sufficient enough time for viewpoints to change so much that what was progressive then seems less so now?

[(Anonymous)]

20 years is a whole new adult. That is a big gap.

And not everything dates at the same rate. We've seen some big changes in how women are presented and how women's roles have changed, socially and on screen, Joss was not exceptionally ahead of the curve even back in the 1990s. He was doing 80s action girl roles only with less makeup and shorter participants. Not to mention his mommy issues that pervaded almost every project he did, and that a lot of his feminist issues were done via a male lead's reaction to them.

He was in the middle of the curve in mid 1990s, and he hasn't really changed his story telling tropes since. We're now in the mid 2010s, that leaves him quite a bit behind the curve now. Sorry dude, but that stuff got stale.

[dethtoll]

20 years is a long time.

[(Anonymous)]

You're trying to be reasoned, but that's a silly view. What passes for feminism right now reminds me of old school paternalism.
'There. There, little lady. Let the big strong man protect you from all of life's scary stuff!'

Fah! Seriously. What exactly is empowering about needing to be protected from ... pretty much everything including applause?

[(Anonymous)]

you're really pushing this line pretty goddamn hard, aren't you

[(Anonymous)]

You're doing your best to sell this whole "modern femimism baaaaaad!" thing, but it's so transparently trollish nobody's buying. Maybe it's time to quit while you're... well, not ahead, but at least not as far behind as you could be if you kept going?

[(Anonymous)]

+1000000

Exactly this.

This...

[(Anonymous)]

What I was going to say. You agree that Whedon is a feminist, but it bothers you that Ruffalo calls him "deeply committed"?

Um. I don't have any big problems with Joss, so it's hard for me wrap my head around. I think he's a action/horror/comedy writer first and a feminist second, and I'm OK with that. You can disagree with details of what he does, but we do that with each other anyway.

Re: This...

[(Anonymous)]

A lazy action/horror/comedy writer. He's not really brought anything fresh to the table for years. His last couple of movies have felt more like an 80s hair rockband's "greatest hits" albums than stuff that is bringing anything fresh. You can pretty much spot his tropes, the lazy fake outs, the reversal of a regular trope, the waifish bad ass girl, the banter instead of dialogue, exposition delivered via quipping, the close up on the rolling of eyes, the woobie-misunderstood-bad guys, the comedy gore shot. They feel like they are assembled via a tick chart.

Re: This...

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Oh god, "exposition delivered via quipping".

I want to strangle Whedon so bad for that. He's inspired several fanfic and non-fanfic writers to try *way* too hard at witty snappy banter, and when it fails it fails so obviously epically it's embarrassing.

Re: This...

[(Anonymous)]

I think he's a little better than you do. But also, I'm really not sure that's at all relevant if we're talking about his feminism.

Re: This...

[(Anonymous)]

This. I'm tired of the waifish badass girl, especially because he lurves this trope so much it feels like a fetish. The banter/quipping is nowhere near as clever as he seems to think and I'm starting to resent friends who quote it to me endlessly as an example of Whedon's genius writing skills.

Um, wasn't that the whole point of Cabin in the Woods?

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, it was full of tropes for the exact purpose of being full of tropes.

Re: This...

[grackle]

God yes.

[arcadiaego]

I'm not saying this is what the OP is getting at, but fandom as a whole now is *totally* black and white. If you're not perfect you *are* indefensible. Problematic now just means 'bad person' instead of, well, problematic.

[logicbutton]

OP thinks Whedon's feminism is out of date, which OP thinks wouldn't be the case if he were as "deeply committed" a feminist as Ruffalo says he is, which makes OP think Ruffalo's saying things without knowing what he's talking about, which makes OP think less of Ruffalo.