fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3062 ]

[ SECRET POST #3062 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3062 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Actually, what I had in mind are the really white blond-haired-blue-eyed actresses of today.

Though that also reminds me, a lot of black actresses seem to try to make themselves looks white, with their hairstyles and makeup.

"Actually, what I had in mind are the really white blond-haired-blue-eyed actresses of today."

Eh, I don't know. I wouldn't say Marilyn Monroe is that much hotter than Scarlett Johansson really. Or that Natalie Portman is really beat by Hepburn.

I just think those stars have a much bigger mystique surrounding them. But stars nowadays are much more disposable.

Stick them side by side and they're equally good-looking. On the male side, put Chris Evans or Chris Hemsworth, Marlon Brando, and Clint Eastwood in the same suit side by side at the prime of their lives and I don't think Chris would suffer looks-wise in comparison. He just doesn't have a huge iconic filmography behind him.

Same for actresses.

"Though that also reminds me, a lot of black actresses seem to try to make themselves looks white, with their hairstyles and makeup."

Today or in decades past or both?

I winced so hard at your second sentence that I actually closed my eyes for a second. Do yourself a favor, and never suggest to a black woman that she's trying to "look white" by straightening her hair, etc.

DA

...?

But black women suggest that white women are trying to "look black" all the time when they get butt implants or lip-plumping procedures done or wear dreads (not to mention cultural appropriation).

Though big butts and big lips are hardly unique to black women so I don't know where that comes from.

Have you ever heard the saying "two wrongs don't make a right?" An argument based on "But they started it!" or "But they're doing it, too!" is usually not a very good argument.

But this assumes that it's "wrong" to say one group of people is trying to emulate another.

In the 1960s, for example, it wouldn't surprise me if I learned that a lot of black actresses went out of their way to emulate white actresses -- there's little doubt in my mind that it would be both safer for them to conform and more profitable.

That doesn't make them "wrong" they just played the game the best they could.

That might very well be what OP meant.

Are you denying it happens?

Are you denying that right now on Tumblr there are black people repeating that their hair is not a toy, that how they wear their hair is their business and nobody else's, and that frizzy curly hair is just jim-dandy?

Because that sounds a lot like combatting the white-dominated cultural paradigm which, you guessed it, included marketing hair straighteners to black people in a kind of understated "Look white to be more attractive" commentary.

I tried, but I'm not even sure what you're arguing about.

DA

The AYRT is saying "do you deny that black women have tried to look like white women because the dominant culture tells them that to be beautiful means looking as white as possible?"

AYRT is pointing out how the fact that a lot of black women are now proudly wearing their natural hair is a pushback against this forced homogeny of white beauty standards which tends to exclude black women's naturally curly hair.

I see. Well, if that's the case then I'd suggest a distinction should be made between:

1) Whether or not there are black women out there who are trying to look white by styling their hair/make up a certain way

2) Whether or not it's a good idea to suggest to a black woman that this is in fact what she is doing when you have no idea whether or not that's her intention.

#1 is arguable. You'll never convince me #2 is a good idea, and since that was the point of my original comment, I'll stand by it.

#2 is kind of irrelevant though because no single person was being discussed

There's no way anyone could reasonably conclude that #2 was what the OP was saying because she not only wasn't personally addressing anyone but didn't even refer to anyone specifically, not even a specific actress by name.

Thus I'm kind of perplexed that you're standing by your original comment because there's no way #2 was in any way relevant to what OP was saying.

It was veering OT when I made the comment, I agree. But since people objected to #2 as though I were arguing #1, I'd say it's very relevant to distinguish between the two and clarify that I never said anything about whether #1 does or does not happen in real life.

OP

That would be nice for your ego if I had, but I didn't say "a black woman [is] trying to "look white" by straightening her hair."

I mean that it is blatantly obvious that the most popular black actresses, and the ones most praised as "beautiful", are the ones who conform closest to the white standard of beauty -- ones with light skin, small pointy noses, narrow lips, hair that is made to look completely straight and/or dyed a lighter shade of brown, etc.

It's not a case of what individual black women choose about their own personal appearance, it's about the cultural expectations and standards which do show.

Or do you also think that EVERY single woman who wears high heels does so solely because she personally decided she likes them, and None of them do so because that is what is expected of women or what the media has put forward as a necessary component of femininity and attractiveness?

I'm aware that societal and cultural expectations play a role in how woman decides to look and that the choices women make aren't made in a vacuum. But to take your example, I'm not going to come out and assume that a woman hasn't made the individual choice to wear high heels because she likes it when I simply do not know one way or the other. That seems rude and presumptuous.

DA

...But OP wasn't talking about a single person? Like, she didn't mention another user, a particular black woman, even a particular black actress.

Everything OP said was in generalized terms (cultural, societal, whatever you choose).

So it's in no way rude or presumptuous because since she's not talking to or about an individual person, she's clearly not making an assumption about one person's individual choice.

OP

Exactly this. I used generalized terms because I was not in any way talking about individuals. Pretty damn obvious telegraphing of my intentions, IMO.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3062 ]

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