[ SECRET POST #3064 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3064 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #438.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

This sounds really cool OP! And I completely agree -- the whole reason I like genderswapping is to see characters of a certain gender in a situation that characters of that gender stereotypically wouldn't be. That juxtaposition of, say, female-character-in-a-male-character's-role, gives me a huge thrill. I call it the Ellen Ripley effect.

So all that shit you describe in other genderswap fics that make all those stereotype-conforming, gender-normative changes? It would completely erase the entire reason for genderswapping in the first place! People are so weird.

[(Anonymous)]

It would completely erase the entire reason for genderswapping in the first place!

Uh, noooooo... the point of genderswapping is to explore what the character would be like if they were the opposite sex and what sort of effects it would have on them and the story. If it's not going to have any effect, there's no point in doing it because the story will play out exactly the same way, just with different pronouns. There will be literally no change, and therefore no point.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

I mean I kind of understand the wish-fulfilment angle (even though I'd much prefer an actual female protagonist rather than a male protagonist being referred to as a female which seems to be essentially what AYRT is arguing upthread) but that would be an incredibly boring fic to read.

[esteefee]

I personally don't think so. Not if you're into the Ellen Ripley effect. (What a great coinage.) Think about it: if you're someone who is into gender equality and you get to see this recontextualized female Harry, (because of course she still goes by 'Harry'), then you get an all new fanfic but with gender-equalized Harry. Fantastic. Why would that be boring? I'm talking about her backstory here, for the furtherance of a new story.

I saw someone upthread talking about how, if it were female Harry, the ball would have to be different because boys ask girls to the ball...blah blah. oh my god. Talk about *boring* changes to make. Why gender-normalize our fic to the stupidity society is still demanding of us?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Because I see needing to recontextualize a female character as a male character to be anything but gender equality. To me that's saying a female character can only ever be interesting if she's presented via a male context. Which is bullshit, and also boring.

[esteefee]

Is it male context though? I think it's more the neutral context. Males are the default context, after all. And once she's Harry, she becomes the female context. That's the point. That's the weird thing about human nature. That's what happened with Ripley. I think Ellen Ripley is one of the great female characters of science fiction as a result. Not because she was a recontextualized male character, but because when they wrote her they weren't trying to write a quote unquote female character. I think when male writers try to write a female character, that's when a lot of the bullshit gender role bias comes in. There is some in the male roles, but there is also a *ton* of neutral stuff that female characters never get to lay claim to. Never. It's off the table.

I want that stuff. :)

[intrigueing]

Exactly! Thank you :)

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I never really thought about it in this level of depth, but this is perfect description of what it's like reading HP for me. Thank you. I know there's a lot of stuff I'm probably only seeing because he's originally conceived as a male character, but there is extremely little there that doesn't come across as just a character who happens to be female.

Re: OP

[esteefee]

I'm glad you get to enjoy her that way, OP. <3 I hope you do find some girlHarry fic that works for you.

[(Anonymous)]

This. It's incredibly sexist to put male characters on pedestals and say that the only good way to write a female character is to write a male character and then just switch the pronouns.

A good female character is a female character who is written with just as much depth and complexity as the male characters, not a male character with the serial numbers filed off.

[(Anonymous)]

Not really.

Male characters tend to be better-written than female characters because they're written neutrally, as just plain "characters" Characters who are male usually aren't written as "male characters" the way characters who are female are written as "female characters."

There's nothing sexist about wanting a female character whose personality doesn't revolve around her gender.

[(Anonymous)]

No. There are badly-written male characters all over the place, people just tend to overlook or excuse it when it's a male character. It's a perfect example of the ridiculous double standards fandom has for female and male characters: a male character can be as flat and one-dimensional as can be and still get people fawning over them and talking about how awesome they are because they're an attractive dude, whereas a female character is anything less than 100% perfect in every way and immediately you get everyone saying "see, no one ever writes female characters well."

To use HP as an example: look at how much attention and love from fandom that Blaise Zabini got despite being essentially a non-entity in the books. He was not a well-written character by any means, yet fandom loved him anyway because he happened to be described as being attractive.

[intrigueing]

Nope. That's ONE possible reason for genderswapping. There are many different reasons and ways to do it.

And often, yes, just the pronoun change causes a profound psychological effect -- the experience of reading about a character can act and be treated in a certain way, and yet be referred to as "she" at the same time is not small potatoes. It really gets into your brain.