fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3077 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3077 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Lackadaisy Cats]

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03.

(Gorillaz)

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04.

(Tripping over you)

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05.

[Stitchers]

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06.

[Dragon Age]

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07.

[The Mighty Boosh]

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08.

[LOVE LIVE!]

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09.

[Brooklyn 99]

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10.

[Mad Max Fury Road]

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11.

[Maggie Stiefvater]

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12.

[Emily Alice Ovenden]

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13.

[When Marnie Was There/Omoide no Marnie]

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14.

(Rick and Morty)

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15.

[Suppression]

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16.

[Wall-e]

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17.

[Ancillary Justice & Ancillary Sword]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #440.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In the first case, is your objection to the (lack of) morality of the teleporter system itself, or to the subjective reactions of the characters finding out they've been through it? I will agree that the teleporter system is probably immoral if it is provably killing people to operate (the fact that it makes a replacement doesn't really change that, IMO, anymore than killing your husband and then carrying his child as a replacement would count as morally sound either). But from the point of view of the characters, I don't think it would necessarily be horrifying on a personal level, since the system hasn't killed them yet. Maybe it killed another version of them, but if we're counting that as a death at all, as per the first point, then they are not the same person and it wasn't their death. It will probably be very weird to find out that you have memories of things that the current you didn't actually live through, but it's no weirder an idea than reincarnation/past lives in many ways, and it wouldn't have to change the characters actions or view of themselves as themselves. Whatever happened to other versions of them, they're still the current version, so their choices and actions still matter in and of themselves. "I'm still me, even if I've got another me's memories". Like that?

For the second thought experiment: I would probably take the surgery under those conditions, if there were no other options. Imagining undergoing that event while conscious and unable to move is horrifying, but the pain would be temporary, the benefits would outweigh it, and there would be no lasting memory of the pain. My major worry would be if the drugs didn't work as stated, or if only the first one worked. I don't want to be paralysed, conscious, in pain, and have to remember it. If only the second one worked, it'd probably be more dangerous for the doctors, but I'm less concerned about that. Mind you, I possibly have an odd perspective on this, in that I actually have lost a good deal of memory from an exceptionally bad period of my life (well, more that I wasn't really recording much memory to start with, rather than losing it later, according to my psychiatrist - it was apparently sort of a very long fugue state interrupted by the occasional intense event that did stick), and to an extent I'm actually grateful for it. It was psychological rather than physical pain, but either way it's easier to function now without having to remember the sensation of it. Although I suppose you could argue that that was more of an internal pyschological anaesthetic than anything ... huh. I don't know.

Point is, if I was absolutely sure the drugs would work as advertised, and if there wasn't a better option, I probably would take that surgery. If there was anaesthetic as an option, though, I'd take that for preference, because while the after surgery effects will be the same either way, with the anaesthetic the pre surgery and during surgery effects are much better, without all that horrifying dread, anticipation and pain. An all-round better experience, I think.

In the first case, I'm talking more about reader responses. A typical example is the comments on this fic: https://www.fimfiction.net/story/269332/blink

As in, your problem is that some of the readers don't find the idea horrifying? Because ... I don't necessarily find it that horrifying an idea myself. I mean, on a moral level, a system that kills people to function is horrifying, yes. Designing the system that way is wrong, and letting people use it without telling them what they're doing is extraordinarily wrong. If using something with kill them, even if they'll functionally resurrect later, they should know about it, so they can make the choice not to if they need to. But for me personally, if I knew in advance that was what the teleporter did, and I still needed it, I'd probably still use it. I'd think more carefully about when and how often I needed it, but in the right circumstances I'd still do it. All my actions and my memories will be carried forward, after all. I'm giving the bulk of myself to the new me, and if they are anything like me, they'll do what I would do with it. If I found out after having used it before, preferably multiple times, that'd probably be an easier decision, since I'd have a dataset to tell me that there's a continuity of thought and opinion, reflected in actions, across my previous selves.

The only issue is when you're getting into philosophical/religious questions like souls, and then the only thing that would worry me is if the soul is getting fractured by successive transports, if I'm doing cumulative damage to it. If each soul is dying with each transport and my subsequent selves are getting different souls of their own, then ... well, I suppose that might be complicated depending on your views of suicide, and you'd really want to NEED to use the teleporter, since it will involve actual death and passing your tasks/life on to someone else. Not something to do casually, but not necessarily an evil in and of itself, depending on circumstances. If the soul carries through the destruction-and-remaking, then there's no real problem at all, you just basically got yourself resurrected in a new-but-similar body. If there's no soul involved at all, there's no problem either. If there was only the first soul, and all copies after that are actually soulless ... but to figure that out, you'd have to be able to ID souls in the first place, so it's still a bit of an academic issue (well, for me, probably not for everyone faced with the question). That heads in a complicated direction, in much the same way some clone stories do, and could lead to unjustified discrimination against my subsequent selves. If there was a way to know they'd be soulless ... but what does that even mean? Would it really matter? They'd be doing the best they could to be me. Can't knock them for that, unless they decide to do something horrible while wearing my face ...

Okay. A teleporter that functioned that way would become a massively more complicated issue than one that just beamed original!you where you wanted to go. It'd be a moral conundrum that crosses with a lot of personal belief systems, and if your subsequent selves are different people on a metaphysical level, then the choice to use it or not will have consequences for more than just yourself. I won't deny that. What I'm saying, though, is that if it was the only system available, if it was needed, and so long as I knew what I was getting into and had the option of choosing, I think I wouldn't personally have that much problem with it, depending on the circumstances and the precise effects.

I can understand how other people really, really, really would, though.

Fair enough. I just don't like when people act like anyone who has a problem with it is just being a sillybilly.

Edited 2015-06-08 01:33 (UTC)

[ SECRET POST #3077 ]

Re: How about popular opinions?

Re: How about popular opinions?

Re: How about popular opinions?

Re: How about popular opinions?