fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3080 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3080 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Dead Poets Society]

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[Tobey Macguire]

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[Billy Connolly]

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(Marvel Cinematic Universe/Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.l.D.)

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[Love Live]

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[Life is Strange]

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(Hysterical Literature/Walt Whitman)

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 032 secrets from Secret Submission Post #440.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

What bothers me is that Skywalker family > everyone else. Anakin slaughtered all the younglings (it hurts a lot to write that sentence) but he gets to hang out in Jedi Heaven because he spared the life of his own kid? Every nasty dictator and war criminal in the world likely has someone that they care about and who humanizes them, but that doesn't mean that they're redeemed.

But Lucas, at least in his movies (I don't think this actually applies to his personal life) seems to take a very feudal view, and the lives of main characters are just that much more important than the lives of the unnamed extras his character has previously slaughtered. He's hardly the only storyteller to do so, but it's ethically uncomfortable as all get out.

I never interpreted it that way. I am not Christian but the Christian ideal of redemption really appeals to me. Here, I think Anakin was truly sorry for what he did but he did not believe it was possible to defy the emperor or that he was strong enough to. It took Luke resisting and having faith to give Anakin the strength. He did die to save Luke, but I do think that he was trying to atone for everything and not just only save his son. Hence why he told Luke that he was right.

That's just how I look at it though.

he did not believe it was possible to defy the emperor or that he was strong enough to.

i'm only like 5% into the SW'verse, but i'm almost certain that's canon....or, it's Legacy.

I didn't get that at all. I think the message is that redemption is possible. I highly doubt everyone would have forgiven him (In the EU, it even takes Leia a long while). The point is that he gets to go to Force heaven or whatever because he repents at the end and does the right thing by killing the Emperor and dying in the process.

If he had survived, he would probably have still had to stand trial. Redemption didn't make up for all he did, but that didn't matter because he died.

I thought it was less because he "spared toe life of his own kid" and more because by doing so, he helped to defeat the emperor.

I'd guess "Jedi Heaven" also has something to do with not just saving his kid but recognizing his wrongs and turning away from that path. Which, sure, means jack-all to the people he killed, but it wouldn't be the first time a religion has presented the idea of forgiveness of sin coming not from the people harmed but from a higher power.

Where in the SW movies does forgiveness "come from a higher power"? It only comes from Luke, and only in a personal sense. If you're referring to the fact that Anakin is seen alongside Obi Wan and Yoda at the end, that's a very narrow Christian-theology way of looking at things. There's no indication whatsoever that the Force consciously consigns people to a heaven or a hell, or that an objective heaven or hell even exists outside of individual people's minds, or "allows" dead people to do this or that.

I...didn't say the movie said that? I'm just spit-balling theory for the concept of Jedi Heaven (which really is just shorthand for Anakin getting to kick it in the afterlife with Obi Wan and Yoda) that sabotabby laid out. And yes, it is a very Christian way of seeing it. Because guess what? Lots of people are Christian or had a Christian upbringing. So, it's not out of the realm of possibility for there to be an undercurrent of that type of redemption lurking in the subtext without being blatantly spelled out.

Luke is a Christlike figure symbolically in some ways though. I don't think leisuretime was talking about there being a literal theology, just that we know that Vader's redemptive action and Luke's forgiveness mean we see all three of them in the 'afterlife' at the end.

I think you're confusing two different types of redemption. Vader redeems himself in the sense of genuinely regretting his actions and by dedicating the last few minutes of his life to making sure he can do some tiny scrap of good for the galaxy. He doesn't redeem himself in the sense of undoing or canceling out his past misdeeds. I'm pretty sure no one would say that it would be better if Vader stuck to his guns and said "Yeah, no, too late for me, I'm not gonna defeat the emperor because I don't deserve the redemption of regretting my actions and changing my mind" because the first type of redemption doesn't work that way, and Vader gets the first type of redemption, not the second.

And if he was alive at the end of the movie, he'd still deserve to go to jail for the rest of his life. Redemption isn't bestowed on him -- there's no indication whatsoever that the Force has anything Heaven/Hell-related, bestowed-from-above at all. It's not a Christian higher power thing, it's a more eastern fabric-of-the-cosmos thing.

His redemption has nothing to do with "this character is more important than another character," it has to do with Vader deciding to do something good with his life, even if he wasted 20+ years of it being evil.

You know, the ones with the most can kind of... stick around.

But more likely, Lucas actually hadn't meant for him to be that irredeemable, but when he wrote Revenge of the Sith, he had to make him bad enough that the audience would be okay with what Obi-Wan does (though there is still that matter of Vader and the Empire blowing up an entire planet and its people in A New Hope).

I actually don't think anything he does in Revenge of the Sith is worse than in A New Hope.

He might not have ordered the destruction of Alderaan in that movie, but he still participated and as a high ranking member of the Empire, that is, in my opinion, by far the worst thing he did.

Plus it was kind of implied in ANH and ESB. Obi-Wan says that Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights and then at one point Yoda says that twenty-something Luke is "too old" to be trained. That kind of makes it clear that Vader was helping to kill minors.

ayrt

Plus it was kind of implied in ANH and ESB. Obi-Wan says that Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights and then at one point Yoda says that twenty-something Luke is "too old" to be trained. That kind of makes it clear that Vader was helping to kill minors.

How exactly does that make it clear? I always assumed full training lasted years and it's best to start training young, then Luke could easily be "too old" without Jedi Knights being minors. I'm not saying they couldn't have been minors, just that it was also plausible, at the time, that they weren't.

In the new show we see him trying to decapitate a 15 year old padawan.

[ SECRET POST #3080 ]

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Maybe it's just the midichlorians.

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