[ SECRET POST #3085 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3085 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #441.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

Because a lot of the time, canon shipping is not done for the sake of shipping, it's done because the canon couple is a feature of the canon and removing it will make the fanfic AU. So it might feel a little weird to come into a fandom and find that 60% of the fanfics are AUs where the canon romance never happened. Just as it would feel a little weird to come into a fandom where 60% of the fanfics are AUs for any other reason.

Now, for non-canon ships that don't break up a canon couple, yeah, I don't know why they'd be surprised at those being more popular, especially since there are way more different possibilities for how to write the arc and dynamics of a romantic relationship (especially first-time stories) for non-canon couples.

[(Anonymous)]

"it's done because the canon couple is a feature of the canon and removing it will make the fanfic AU."

But is that necessarily true? Couldn't removing a canon ship just be a continuation of canon? For example, if you wrote a Harry Potter post-epilogue fanfic where one character in a pairing dies and so they get together with another character, would that necessarily be AU?

Also, I've always gotten the impression that there's a lot of fanfiction that deals not only with the canon world but also with fixing things that the reader or viewer doesn't like (whether it's a ship or a plot point).

[(Anonymous)]

If you wrote a post-epilogue HP fic then there is no canon. Canon comes a shuddering and grinding halt as soon as the Hogwarts express pulls out carry the sprogs. You are out of canon then, not out of character. There is a difference.

[intrigueing]

No of course not, why would I say that? Future-fic is exempt from AUness.

And I never said it was necessarily true, just that it is true in a lot of cases where there are very popular canon couples. Like if the entire plot would be substantially different if that canon couple wasn't together.

Also, I've always gotten the impression that there's a lot of fanfiction that deals not only with the canon world but also with fixing things that the reader or viewer doesn't like (whether it's a ship or a plot point).

Yes? Exactly? Why are you telling me this? Obviously, this is true. Doesn't mean it's 100% canon compliant. Being non-canon is sort of the whole point. But for some couples, making them non-canon causes substantial changes to the entire canon, not just a few details of who is dating who.

And yeah, I do agree that the rules for shipping tend to be different than for other canon events and conditions. Technically, a ship that breaks up a canon couple within the established timeline of the show is a canon-divergent AU, but it's generally not counted as an AU, for understandable reasons. I'm just drawing a comparison.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh...sorry. Seems like I interpreted your post a bit differently than you probably meant it.

[intrigueing]

Okay, no problem!

[(Anonymous)]

it's done because the canon couple is a feature of the canon and removing it will make the fanfic AU

with respect, I'm not entirely on board with that argument. It seems to me that the same logic would apply to all fanfic ever written - and while that might be the case, I don't think it's a very useful definition of an AU

[(Anonymous)]

I could get onboard with that definition. It would make my fic searches so much easier.

[intrigueing]

Well, it depends on the situation. A couple that was together for the whole show, or a couple whose UST is central to the show and who got together later, is different from a couple who happened to get together at some point in the show. Just like...there are some couples, where if they weren't together, the overall canon wouldn't change much. But for some couples, if they're not together, the status quo of the show and its established events and situations arising from those events would change.

[(Anonymous)]

If that's all it takes to qualify as an AU, then I think only a very tiny percentage of fanfics would count as canon compliant.

[intrigueing]

Depends on the couple. I didn't say "that's all it takes." I was only talking about what is the case for a lot of popular canon couples. Usually, canon couples that are super-popular are really central to the show/movie franchise/book series/whatever. I wasn't talking about all couples that happen to be canon.

For example, it might seem a little weird for new Star Wars fans if Han/Luke was way way way more popular than Han/Leia.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Exploration is the whole ducking point of ducking fic so it's not the slash folks who need justification.

Ducking phone errors left ducking in because they're ducking funny.

[intrigueing]

Um...where did I say they need justification? And where did I specify slash? Slash is not all there is to non-canon shipping. I never said anything like that. Please don't put words in my mouth, it's honestly pretty annoying.

I just meant that it would make sense if some newbie who comes into a fandom expecting that people will be all over the main canon pairing -- because in a lot of shows with a central canon pairing or will-they-or-won't-they arc, that one's the juggernaut -- might be taken aback and wonder why everyone's shipping something that isn't even canon.

Obviously, though, if they can't figure out why a certain non-canon ship is so popular after spending some time in the fandom, they're probably not listening to other people's views well enough.

(Though I strongly contest the idea that you can't explore pairings that are already canon, or that all canon exploration needs to be ship-related.)

[(Anonymous)]

You know, maybe, if everyone is reading you completely different from how you intended, you should stop being a defensive, condescending twat about it and accept that you either worded yourself poorly or your argument just doesn't make sense.

Honestly, though, you're coming across like a huge fucking jerk in every response, here.

[intrigueing]

Um, okay...?

I don't see anything twatty about clarifying what I meant (like I did in the comments above) or asking why someone is talking about something I didn't even mention in my original comment (like I did here). Am I supposed to not correct people when they put words in my mouth? I can accept that I may have worded my comment poorly (though I don't see where), but I'm still REALLY utterly confused about where people are getting this info from when it isn't even so much as hinted at in my comment. I never said the word "justification" or implied it. So how on earth am I supposed to apologize for going "um, no, that's not what I meant and why did you think I meant that?"

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really like this thought because it seems to lead into the idea that canon pairing = gen and at least for me nothing makes me click away from a fic faster than suddenly having a pairing shoved in at me with no warning.

Like Lupin/Tonks. I hate that pairing. And I hate reading something unrelated and then suddenly OH YAS AND HERE IS LUPIN AND TONKS AND THEY ARE TTLY MAKING OUT BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSTANTLY BUMPING UGLIES LONKS4EVER!!!!

Like... no. If it doesn't matter to your fic if they're together or not then just leave out any mention of it and let the reader either assume canon-compliant or happily headcanon whatever. And if it is important, tag it. "Mentions of Lupin/Tonks" or whatever, just some warning.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, you would really hate my fics.

Oh well.

[intrigueing]

No offense, but I think that's utterly ridiculous. If there was a lot of focus on Lupin/Tonks, or sex scenes or whatever, then yeah I think the pairing should be mentioned. But dude, writers are not required to warn for mere mentions of canon just because you hate it so much that you can't stand even a glimpse of it. That's the most entitled thing I've ever heard.