[ SECRET POST #3113 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3113 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 047 secrets from Secret Submission Post #445.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[solticisekf]

It's a fallacy that in order to be good, meaning worthy and deserving, one has to meet some criteria. It's a psychological conditioning that some had gone through as kids.

[(Anonymous)]

So somebody who rapes and murders people without remorse is still "good enough," since, well, there's no criteria for being good enough, and thinking you're not good enough is just psychological conditioning?

[(Anonymous)]

that's clearly not what they're saying

don't be a pedant

[solticisekf]

Knowing that 'I'm good' is paramount to psychological health. Because it gives us strength to fail. And to identify oneself not based on some criteria. 'If you fail in getting good job you're bad' makes many people anxious, guilty... A therapist on my flist wrote about it and I think it makes sense.
I don't think that criminals bother with this good-bad stuff or go to therapists. It's strange that you thought of the worst crimes first thing, tbh, kinda sudden. Are you accusing OP of something? =_=;;

[(Anonymous)]

This is really a lot of babble. Exactly how does telling yourself what a beautiful noble person you are give anyone "strength to fail"? More likely it just fosters a massive sense of entitlement. The idea that high self-esteem equals mental health has been pretty much exploded by current research in psychology. And there are plenty of things for which one should feel anxious or guilty. Maybe failing to land a highly paid job is not one of them. But (leaving aside people who commit heinous crimes like rape and murder) a person should probably feel anxious and guilty about living off their aging parents without attempting to find employment, or misappropriating funds from their job, or fucking their best friend's fiancee. Would you argue that these people, too, are okay?

[solticisekf]

I replied ⬇ the thread.
How come a healthy self esteem is not important?

-living off their aging parents without attempting to find employment
they may be ill.

-misappropriating funds from their job
to give to a worthy cause. And they work for mafia.

-fucking their best friend's fiancee.
to prove to their friend that the marriage'd be a mistake.

[(Anonymous)]

Because the current research tends to show that there's no correlation between high self esteem and prosocial behavior, or competence, or...well, anything except egotism and narcissism. Bullies, for instance, tend to have high self-esteem. So do racists, and people like habitually drunk drivers who think rules don't apply to them, and assholes in general.

Your other points are really disingenuous quibbling. Yes, there are sometimes extenuating circumstances (although 2 of your three are really far-fetched), but the fact that you had to weasel around the question by imagining excuses for the behavior kind of proves my point: in the absence of extenuating circumstances, the person acting this way is not "good enough."

[solticisekf]

High self esteem is not the same as a healthy one. I think we can agree that high s.e. and low s.e. are both bad.

the person acting this way is not "good enough." This is judgement based on your values. Not good enough for what? To live, to be happy, to be your friend? Do you believe in redemption? Anyway, I wrote a long text here explaining my original point... BTW, most good written evil overloads believe that they're doing good. Thinking you're bad, this way lies self destraction. People will invent countless excuses.

I hope you didn't mean it personally with 'disingenuous quibbling'. I'm not getting paid to comment on fs, you know.

[(Anonymous)]

You're an idiot.

[(Anonymous)]

Citation needed.

I think it's pretty much common sense that there are criteria to be met. Basic things like don't go around hurting people. Own your misdeeds. Clean up your own messes.

[solticisekf]

I can give the source if you fancy Google translate. In a nutshell it goes like this.

Knowing that 'I'm good' means: I have the right to want something. I also have the right to not want something. My wishes and needs are important. I can express them. I have the right to act to fulfill them. I have a right to refuse something that I don't want or that's bad for me.

Knowing 'I'm bad' means: My wishes are bad and wrong. I can't do anything to fix it because I'm wrong. I don't have a right to fulfill my needs.

Most people are in the category of 'I'm good IF'. It's debatable if I have the right to want something. I don't have this right if someone thinks that it's wrong to want it. In order to be good I have to want some particular things and act in particular way to get these things. If I can't do it - I'm bad.

Knowing oneself to be good creates a harmony inside, a sense of calmness. A person knows that they're OK, despite mistakes and failing, and not listening to their mom. It gives strength and resources to face life hardships.

Criteria =/= morale.
Criteria is formed in childhood. A child does something wrong -> their mom doesn't love them -> they're bad. No matter how senseless these criteria are. Sit straight. Don't run. Be quiet. Don't cry. Etc.

Criteria is different from experience, common sense, advice and morale compass.

1) It's hazy, impossible to meet, stupid.
For example, our criteria is You Have To Be a Good Girl, or you are bad. What does it even mean? To be girly, listen to your mom, do nothing bad? Everyone has their own definition. There's a moment when a person disagrees with their parents and argues with them. Then they feel guilt, stress and anxiety because they didn't meet Criteria, meaning they're bad. So they don't deserve anything, I don't have the right to want and soon will be destroyed.

2) Criteria likes to come in numbers.
Oftentimes Criteria are many and contradicting. For example, You Have to Be Independent, Feed The Family and Listen to Your Mom. Here a person gets caught in a double bind and is punished for not meeting either Criteria.

3) Criteria is disconnected from reality.
Supposedly meeting Criteria makes someone happy but it really doesn't. At best it brings relief.
Also in reality all rules are implemented depending on circumstances. 'You have to...' and 'It would be best if you...' are beneficial in some instances but not in others. Criteria is absolute and have to be met no matter what.

The link between 'I am good' and 'I have to...' leads to guilt and anxiety that both lead to dependency.