fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3145 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3145 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Girl With all the Gifts/She Who Brings Gifts]

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02.

[Hannibal]

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03.

[Rookie Blue]

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04.

[Gakuen Alice]

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05.

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06.

[Linkara, Atop the Fourth Wall]

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07.

[Rookie Blue]

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08.

[Dawes, "Things Happen"]

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09.

[Yukigumi, Sagiri Seina & Sakihi Miyu]

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10.

[Brooklyn Nine-Nine]

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11.

[Good Omens]

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12.

[Arrested Development]

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13. http://i.imgur.com/FckwG6x.jpg
[The Walking Dead (possibly spoilers), linked for gore (not real, but TV/Walking Dead-realism)]

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14. [SPOILERS for M:I - Rogue Nation]

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15. [SPOILERS for Warbreaker]

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16. [WARNING for "NSFW, Nudity, forced kink, general fuckeduppery"]
http://s9.postimg.org/bzl9zbv3j/fs_pparc_twnsfw_twnudity_twgeneralfuckeduppery.jpg
[Hunter x Hunter; linked because ? nudity/abuse/or something? and I'm not really sure what's going on here]

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17. [WARNING for rape]

[The Phantom Of The Opera, James Barbour]

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18. [WARNING for rape]

[Lupin III - The Woman Called Fujiko Mine]

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19. [WARNING for death]

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20. [SPOILERS for the Talos Principle]
[WARNING for suicide]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #449.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I enjoyed watching all the people told off about the whole, "Natasha's character in A:AOU thinks she is a monster cuz she can't have babies!!!"

No. That was not it. And more eloquent people than me were able to explain that apparently some audience members either completely ignored Bruce's whole bit or completely misunderstand how empathy works.

Unfortunately I think a lot of people in fandom still think that

I completely agree. There were plenty of reasons to dislike the movie, but that one was just stupid. People wanted to see the worst in that conversation, but in my opinion, Natasha was talking about how her training and actions made her feel like a monster, not her infertility.

See, I don't think they meant it to mean that. But the wording was really badly written, which is unusual for Whedon. Better word choices could have conveyed the intended message of that scene better.

Eh, I disliked the conversation quite a bit. But, I think that sort of comes from the fact that, in the comics at least, she never quite expresses any negative feelings towards being infertile.

And yeah, I get that film =/= comics, but Widow seems the character that is the most removed from her comic self (except maybe Hawkeye, but he just hardly spoke until A:AoU), and she was the only female hero until Wanda,so yeah, I sort of get the being pissy about making her angst be about not being able to have babies.

But I don't think she was particularly sad about being infertile. She ONLY brought it up because Bruce brought up the fact he can never have kids. She was just trying to draw comparisons between the two to make him feel better.

Also, I think she was trying to express to him that is was okay he can't provide her with children because she doesn't want (or can have) children of her own (naturally).

I think it definately came across that way for me, especially becuse of her bod language and her being sort of teary-eyes. YMMV, but I saw it twice and the scene rubbed me the wrong way on two occasions. And the monster line just strikes me as weird in that context.

I get the scene was about the coming together, but it seemed so clumsily executed to me.

For me it was just such a weirdly worded converstation all-around, like I didn't think they meant to imply that not being able to have kids was the worst thing that the Red Room did to her, but it did come off that way to me a bit the first time I saw it.

Either way that and Bruce/Nat were not the things that annoyed me the most in AoU and I forgot about it until fandom exploded on those points more than anything else.

It ABSOLUTELY came off that way to me. The way her flashbacks had that ominous stuff about "You're ready for... graduation." and the way she built up in her speech that this was the big final thing indicating her training was complete. Not having to kill her sensei or her puppy or something, the Big Final Step was getting her tubes tied. It felt very weirdly emphasized, and since she followed it up IMMEDIATELY with declaring herself to be a monster... that reading really felt like the most obvious one to me.

That said, others didn't see it that way, so I get that there's some definite subjectivity going on.

Yeah I get what you mean and I can see why people drew that conclusion, I saw it myself a bit as well because the sterilistation did seem to come off as the focus over everything else that was done to her in the Red Room, then she was trying to offer Bruce comfort about his inability to have kids so I get them having her bring up her infertility, it makes sense in context since she's into him and he's angsting over it and she wants to reassure him that it's okay... But how it unfolds just felt weird to me instead.

But yeah it's definitely a subjective thing and trying to have a discussion about in fandom is next to impossible because both sides are insufferable about it tbh.

Ugh, with you on the insufferable. I actually had a nice productive conversation about it after I saw the movie, but that's because I had it in the real world, with my best friend. I was very bothered by the "monster" thing, but she read it more the way you did, so we had a nice talk about why we each read it the way we did. Like civilized damn humans.

How dare you nonnie, you should have been screaming and yelling insults at each other in true internet argument fashion. Reasonable discourse is not allowed when it comes to fannish things.

(I've had similar convos with my friends/family/bf after seeing things and we got different interpretations out of a scene, it's nice to have someone to help muddle over your thoughts with).

[ SECRET POST #3145 ]

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