fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3152 ]

[ SECRET POST #3152 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3152 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Biolabs (Ragnarok Online)]

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05. http://i.imgur.com/Y2CLL5n.gif
[moving gif - that Hulk/Black Widow porn one]

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[Dresden Codak]

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07. [SPOILERS for Borderlands 2]
[WARNING for abuse and stuff]

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08. [WARNING for death/suicide]

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09. [WARNING for suicide]

[Final Fantasy X]

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10. [WARNING for rape]

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11. [WARNING for rape]

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12. [WARNING for underage/sexual assault, transphobia]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #450.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"So many shows don't have the guts to have a woman rapist beaten up and left bleeding to death in the middle of the road. Or even punish male rapists."

I don't know the context, but I probably agree with this secret. That said, the wording of it really skeeves me out. I just...why describe the violent punishment of the female rapist specifically, and not the punishment of the male rapist, in the context of essentially applauding it? I'm not saying rapists don't deserve what they get (cuz generally they do), but the way this is worded feels weirdly lopsided, like the rape committed by the female rapist offended OP more or something. Like, "Raping bitches need the fucking shit beat out of them. Oh, and also men who rape should be punished."

This is maybe not how OP meant for it to come off. It just threw me when I was reading the secret, to the point where I almost felt like I disagreed with the secret even though on a fundamental level I totally agree with it.

Well, male rapists have been known to be violently punished in fiction. I always think of RoboCop, but there's actually a lot of castrations and "shot in the nuts" scenarios in other works too. Not only are fictional female rapists rarer but I don't think I can recall one instance of violent retribution for any of them.

So maybe OP just wants more violent punishments for female rapists (since it doesn't happen often) and more punishment for male rapists period (since... OP thinks they still get away too often?).

Maybe because rape by a woman isn't taken seriously and more often than not played for laughs. Often the victim, especially a male, is treated as if they should be considered lucky. There was a whole movie for teens that ended with a by having to beg his girlfriend for forgiveness for being raped. Media overwhelmingly portrays the act of raping women as a horrible scummy thing to do, and there how countless movies and shows that stress how bad it is.

Woman rapists? Not so much.

Media overwhelmingly portrays the act of raping women as a horrible scummy thing to do

Yes and no. I agree that, when the rape is actually recognized as rape, it gets portrayed as a horrible thing to do. However, there are SO MANY instances of male-committed rape in popular fiction where the rape isn't recognized as rape, and is either treated as hot, or as simply "predatory sex" or something.

For example, a popular show like The Vampire Diaries (especially in the early seasons) is full of male vampires "compelling" female humans into a willing state and then having sex with them. Yet the show never really acknowledges it as rape. Damon (main character) rapes Caroline (another main character) numerous times in season one, without it ever really being dealt with.

Chuck attempts to rape Jenny in the pilot of Gossip Girl, but it's never really acknowledged until like four seasons later where it gets one little throw away line about how maybe he tried to do a bad thing there.

And don't even get me started on Fifty Shades of Grey, or the many, many other, less popular romance novels that romanticize rape, simply because the author and many of the readers don't understand that it is rape.

In fiction where a woman rapes a man, it's often passed over for much the same reason: people simply don't recognize it as rape. The biggest example I can think of at the moment is in Shameless, where Sheila rapes Frank and it's played as some kind of joke. Then, much later in the series, Sheila confesses that she's a sexual sadist. She evidently feels guilt over it, but it remains unclear whether she/the writers recognize that she is in fact a rapist.

When female-committed rape in fiction isn't properly dealt with, that definitely bothers me. However, I don't make the mistake of thinking it's more prevalent than male committed rape not being properly dealt with, because it really isn't.

Do you think that the fact that all of the examples you cite for male rape not being taken seriously are romance stories explicitly and specifically targeted towards women has any relevance to your argument?

No, why would it?

Actually, let me rephrase: No, that has absolutely zero relevance to the argument at hand.

Because it could imply that the relative seriousness of the act is not the only factor that determines whether or not rape is portrayed as serious.

It seems much more likely to me that it's portrayed that way in those shows because it's a kink that appeals to a certain population of women, and much less likely that it's portrayed that way because of a societal aversion from taking rape seriously.

I mean, I don't really want into get into the weeds of the whole ravishment argument, b/c I think it's bullshit, but I think you would expect rape to be portrayed differently when it's almost explicitly a rape fantasy.

I think what's immediately and pressingly relevant is the basics: Is it rape? If yes, is it treated accordingly? The "If it's not treated accordingly, why not, and what implications does that have for broader society?" portion of the issue is...a whole other conversation, tangentially related to the point we're arguing, but not directly within the scope of this argument, IMO.

Furthermore, I don't agree that "It was rape but it was depicted as sexy because it turned out she actually wanted it," is any less damaging or problematic an explanation for why a rape was depicted inappropriately than "It was rape but it wasn't really because he's a man and men can't be raped." Both of those notions stem from the same source: rape culture, sexism, the gender binary, etc., etc. (Do I need to elaborate on this bit? Probably not?)

A comic that's aimed gender-neutral-to-male audience showed a male character raping his wife in order to get a child so the neighbors would stop laughing at him for playing with geeky kids toys. This is portrayed as funny.

I thought this as well.

Maybe if the OP is more offended by a rape by a female perp than a male one, it might not have to do with "it's because they hate women" and more because more often than not women get a pass on this behavior by large parts of society. Especially in fucking media.

There have been multiple instances of female on male rape being played for laughs and treated as funny or the male's fault. In a lot of shows and movies its been used for comic relief.

How the media treats male rapists of women and children? Usually if not almost always as the scummiest of the scum. Look at Law and Order SVU where the awful nature of the crimes is lampshaded by the announcer as being the most heinous kind of crimes, and the show runs so much on "rape is really really bad" that the detectives in that show frequently seem to get away with some downright iffy behavior for police.

Look at a lot of movies where rapist characters are (and rightfully) portrayed as awful skeevy scummy lowlives. Lifetime Movie Network has dozens of movies about evil abuser/rapist male characters , those kinds of movies make up about 80% of its movies.

A lot of times a guy who is a rapist in media, he's written so its practically a NO BRAINER that he's an evil scumbag.

However female rapists? There is at least on skit in the Vagina Monologues where a girl calls her rape by a woman "good rape". Girl raping guy is often comedy material and situations where a guy is sexually harassed by a female cop have been portrayed in even animated media as comedy. There is a whole movie aimed at teens (40 days and 40 nights) where a guy gets raped when he's vulnerable and unable to fight back and by the end HE has to beg his girlfriend for forgiveness.

In some countries the legal definition of rape is written to not include female perpetrators and male victims.

I'm a woman and I believe in a lot of the things feminism stands for equality and equal pay and fighting sexism. But I can see why the OP would feel this way. Maybe instead of jumping to assuming "ITS BECAUSE SEXISM, this is GROSS!!!11" you might think about how media tends to treat the two.

I think you are conflating "I have seen instances where female-committed rape is given a pass," with "Female-committed rape being given a pass is more prevalent in fiction than male-committed rape being given a pass."

For the former: Yes, I have seen that too and it bothers me a lot.
For the latter: I think you may just be a little blind to the MANY instances where male-committed rape is given a pass.

I expound on this in my comment to another anon up thread.

Furthermore, I think instances of female-committed rape in fiction stand out more in people's minds, specifically because they're so much less common.

I would say, on an absolute level, there's much more male-committed rape being given a pass than female-committed rape being given a pass.

However, that's mostly because there's so much more male-committed rape being portrayed. And if you look at it on a percentage basis, I think much more female-committed rape is given a pass, relative to the amount being portrayed - in fact, almost all of it seems to be given a pass, whereas some male rape is given a pass and some of it isn't.

>And if you look at it on a percentage basis, I think much more female-committed rape is given a pass

True. I'm just disinclined to look at it on a percentage basis. For me it's about how much toxic material is being dumped in the water, so to speak. Not about how much bubble bath is being dumped into the water comparatively. Messy metaphor is messy, but whatever.

Crime shows at least tend to treat female-on-male rape as more shocking and evil and it's never laughed off.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3152 ]

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Ugh seriously people?

Re: Ugh seriously people?

Re: Ugh seriously people?

Re: Ugh seriously people?

Re: Ugh seriously people?