fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #394 ]

[ SECRET POST #394 ]

⌈ Secret Post #394 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 375 secrets from Secret Submission Post #057.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat, [ 1 2 ] too big, [ 1 ] personal attack, [ 1 ] we went through this yesterday.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, February 4th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah, more people should be concerned over the victimization of that fictional character (it's not like rape fantasies are fairly common or anything) than someone perpetuating an attitude that is detrimental to young girls in the real world.

The majority of the time when people say "rape fantasy" they are referring to a fantasy of being raped. Fantasies of doing the raping are often the first step to committing a sex crime, fictional character or not.

To me, that's a lot worse than complaining that people who don't use protection are stupid and slutty.

And to me a fantasy involving a specific fictional character in isolation by one person of indeterminate gender sounds like an idiosyncrasy, not a OMG, POTENTIAL RAPIST! alert, but then I sometimes fantasize about hitting my neighbor with my car, so what do I know?

Seriously though, I KNOW rape fantasizes can lead to actual rape, but considering the context it strikes me as something so obviously out there and unique that there's not much you can say to an OP who already realizes how strange it is. The JUNO secret, on the other hand, demonstrates and indeed proudly supports a common mindset, something that is insidious because rather than be repulsed or disbelieving (as with the rape secret) people just nod along.

If they were "proudly supporting" it, would it be here on fandomsecrets? Obviously this person doesn't share their opinion with those around them, so I doubt anyone is nodding along anywhere.

Have you read the replies that essentially say 'I agree'? The idea that teenage mothers are sluts is not a POPULAR opinion to voice in our relatively liberal society, but it's a common one. I mean seriously, you've never heard someone say that IRL or elsewhere on the internet?

Edited 2008-02-04 00:17 (UTC)

HOW is it detrimental to young girls to basically send them the message that they should keep their fucking legs closed or think twice about protection before they go bareback-riding?

The point, I think you've missed it.

HOW is it detrimental to young boys to basically send them the message that it's a-okay to have unprotected sex with a girl and not worry about the consequences because it's all the other party's fault?

The problem people have with this Secret is not that the OP thinks that girls who have unprotected sex are idiots, but that it places blame on the girls only. The OP seems (not necessarily is, but appears to be at the moment) perpetuating that medieval idea that it does not take two to tango, and males need not take responsibility for their actions because, hey, that's just the way they are. They can't control themselves! That girl should have known better! Doesn't matter that the guy has even more control in the area of putting a goddamn condom on.

As

paperclipchains said: "Yeah, I'm not feeling that argument - she has to keep her legs shut but he can't keep it in his pants?"

Because it's the simple, right? You're either virginal or a stupid slut.

The attitude is detrimental because
a) It isn't realistic. Teenagers (yes, teenage boys too, surprisingly enough!) are going to have sex. They always have, they probably always will.
b) It's sexist, there is no equivalent stigma attached to boys who knock up their girlfriends. It heaps all the responsibility onto the woman and minimizes the male 'contribution.'
c) It results in a shame culture that can drive girls to back door abortion clinics or something equally unpleasant.

Yes, people should be educated about safe sex and they should know the potential consequences of their actions, but self righteous moralizing and dismissing a woman's entire moral character for a single mistake doesn't help anyone, especially when it is so easy for men to escape such moral judgments.

Edited 2008-02-04 00:13 (UTC)

You're either virginal or a stupid slut.

Any girl who has unprotected sex on a regular basis with multiple partners *is* a stupid slut. Hell, she's the walking definition of a stupid slut. Not to mention a selfish, irresponsible bitch for bringing a child into this world that she can't take care of. For that matter, so is whoever knocked her up. Personally, I think they BOTH equally deserve society's contempt for ruining each other's lives and probably the life of their kid.

Uh...that's SUPER, but the secret didn't say anything about girls who have unprotected sex with multiple partners, in fact NO ONE DID BUT YOU. The secret referred to teenage mothers, it didn't make ANY distinction between those who may have been in a committed relationship when their birth control failed and those ones who may have non stop drunken sex orgies.

I was responding to your prejudice-against-teen-moms-is-bad argument, not the OP's all-teen-moms-are-sluts argument. And YOU didn't exactly clarify whether you supported blanket protection from any form of criticism against ALL teenage mothers, or just the ones who used birth control and weren't promiscuous.

those who may have been in a committed relationship when their birth control failed

That's your middle ground right there. The prejudice against teenage mothers is aimed at the drunken orgy type, not the broken condom type. Sure, there's a few remnants of OMG PREGGERS AT 15 = INSTA-SLUT FOREVERS!, but that mentality is dying out, and most people will be fairly sympathetic to a girl who did everything she was supposed to do but still got knocked up by sheer dumb luck. What they aren't, and in my opinion, SHOULD NOT, be sympathetic towards are the brainless twits who can't keep their legs closed or at least buy a rubber and then piss and moan because they just flushed 18 years of their lives down the toilet.

Maybe I'm not wording this right. What I'm saying is, if the OP instantly categorizes all teenage mothers as the latter, yeah, I think that's stupid. But so is arguing that calling a slut a slut = misogyny. If that's not what you meant then I apologize, but that's how I interpreted it.

Sorry, I did misunderstand the context of your post. Mea culpa. It's not that I support blanket protection, dangerous and destructive behavior should be criticized, it's that I didn't like what I saw as a generalization OR the judgmental nature of the post.

The thing is, 'slut' IS a sexist term, regardless if you think it's apt or not. It is (traditionally) associated with one gender and supports a double standard. I don't see anything wrong with disapproving of promiscuous behavior, but it can be done without relying on language that is typically based on the person's gender as much as their behavior. Or I suppose to be equal opportunity we can push the use of the term 'man-slut,' either way.

[Slut] is (traditionally) associated with one gender and supports a double standard.

I was gonna argue that the words "cad" and "rake" are also gender-specific because men who toss their newly impregnated "conquests" for the wolves are generally frowned upon, but come to think of it, they don't take nearly as much shit as any woman who shows the slightest hint of a libido. We live in a world where a girl can get called a slut for having big boobs.

(I freely admit I'm probably less charitable towards the dumb broads who can't be bothered with safe sex than I should be, but the thought of some dickhead tossing his partner aside like garbage when she "mysteriously" gets pregnant makes my blood boil. I'd take sluts over cads any day.)

In fact, the word "slut" gets abused so much it's practically synonymous with "cunt" or "bitch", i.e., "I don't like this chick for reasons that are almost invariably because I'm a misogynistic fuck. Therefore, I will imply that she turns tricks at the bus stop for smack even if she's never been taken out of the packaging because women are not allowed to have sexual urges."

Also, 'cad' and 'rake' have mostly fallen out of use, whereas 'slut'... hasn't. And 'rakish' has actually come to have a positive implication (see: "rakishly handsome") whereas I can't imagine 'slutty' ever being positive.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #394 ]

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