fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3159 ]

[ SECRET POST #3159 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3159 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Knights Errant]

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[HeadOn]

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06. [SPOILERS for Tales of the Abyss]

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07. [WARNING for rape]

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08. [WARNING for sexual assault/harassment]

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09. [WARNING for child sexual abuse]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #451.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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It would be difficult to recapture the magic of the show with words because so much of what the show focuses on is explained with visual cues.

I know. Even if you can get their voices down, the show is such a visual thing. On the one hand, that makes no sense, because all shows are visual things, but this show is even MORE visual than other shows.

But I have started reading all the post-finale fic. I haven't found anything yet that really grabbed me, but I'm enjoying myself. I'm hoping that after the 'immediate coda' period, someone (or a few someones) will start having some more in depth post-finale fic.

If it's a choice between what we have now and a season full of that with Will changing his mind, or dying at the end, I think I would rather take the finale as is.

Yeah, this is me. And I know other people would want Will to come back from darkness. So there would be no pleasing everyone. But I see the finale as Going There, and I wouldn't want to come back from that. But like I said, I don't see Will being exactly like Hannibal, and I do see different ways for him to be dark and still have conflict, to give into these things and not like it, or to enjoy it but hate himself, or to live with Hannibal and like it and hate it at the same time, or to be more particular about who he kills and when.

"No, look how awful Hannibal is and he has to live. You can't kill Will, especially now that he and Hannibal have just teamed up."

If one lives, then the other has to live. That's just how I feel the show has gone.

I would actually really like to see Hannibal risk his freedom for Will, because that's the kind of thing you wouldn't have expected of Hannibal before, you know? But by the finale he's definitely so gone for Will (in whatever way) that him doing so seems possible.

I can just see him figuring that jail is no big deal for him, but it would be for Will (even though Will has also been to jail). Or I can see him just doing it in the moment without thinking, as a reaction to something.

And apparently Fuller said (when addressing whether the cancellation had anything to do with not having the rights to Clarice) that S4 would deal with Will and Hannibal's continuing story, and that SotL wouldn't be until S5 anyway. So he obviously thinks there's a lot more story to do with Hannibal and Will, though since Clarice was mentioned, it seems that Hannibal would get caught again by the end of S4, to set up SotL.

Okay, I need to see more of this particular tumblr.

Man, my favorite posts on Tubmlr have to be the crack ones. I don't go much for crack fic or fluffy fic, but I love me some Hannibal lol posts.

Hannibal is so distinct and unique with visuals though! This show more than almost every other I've seen is heavily visual. I know the show gets called pretentious a lot, lmao, but the fact of the matter is the visuals DO speak very loudly; sometimes they tell a story in ways words can't.

Same. I've found a few fics I've enjoyed, but mostly there's codas. Some stuff is insanely OOC, some is pretty spot on, though not as eloquently written as the show. (Which is no insult to the fanbase, because the show is beautiful and it would be difficult to live up to it.)

I've watched/listened to a few podcasts and reviews since the finale and it seems that most people outside the tumblr fanbase do not want Will to go full dark!side. They all seem to acknowledge and love the finale and even point out how 'romantic' Will and Hannibal's relationship is and how brilliant it is for Will to kill with Hannibal, but Will is so beloved that I think most people have difficulty with the idea of seeing him sullied in that way. Even though he already has been for a long time, seeing it explicitly explored in such a way would be hard for some of the audience. Watching the show again has just reminded me how Will had this in him all along, and Hannibal was a large part of what drew it out of him.

IA! Apparently Fuller does too, so there's that.

Again, it probably says something about me and this particular relationship that I think Hannibal sacrificing his freedom for Will is sweet. For Hannibal it is, anyway.

So we'd get at least one more season of Hannibal on the loose? Though Fuller has been brilliant, I LOVED that we got so much of Hannibal outside jail. Seeing him locked up is interesting in its own way, but I much prefer to see him doing his thing out of jail.

Me too! I can't think of any other fandom that is this dark and yet manages to bring so much humor to it. It's a morbid sense of humor, but it delights me. (The show is the same way though, what with Hannibal and all his 'sly' cannibalism jokes. Mads is such a genius in his portrayal of Hannibal. Even when he isn't making jokes...I'm imagining his face when Will bites Mason's chef, lol. He's smiling and so damn proud. It's hilarious. Oh, and him with poor Chilton's lip in s3, and the comment about him hoping Chilton isn't too ugly. He has such a wicked, rude sense of humor at times, which again...is pretty hilarious considering the whole 'eat the rude' thing.)

Well, today I accidentally wrote post-finale fanfic. Oops.

I've watched/listened to a few podcasts and reviews since the finale and it seems that most people outside the tumblr fanbase do not want Will to go full dark!side.

I can see this. And I had never really thought about the show itself taking Will full darkside before the finale, but in retrospect, it just looks like an obvious ending. Like we said, even early in S3, he was acting waaaaay sketchy.

but Will is so beloved that I think most people have difficulty with the idea of seeing him sullied in that way. Even though he already has been for a long time, seeing it explicitly explored in such a way would be hard for some of the audience.

I was saying to someone else that the show is the most fascinating example of 'love doesn't change the bad guy' that I've ever seen. You know how it is, most media will have an actual villain or just a badboy turn good for the love of a good person. Actually seeing it play out in reverse is incredibly interesting. Will has been sullied for a long time, but I think we're so used to 'right' and 'good' triumphing in the end (even that culminates in murder suicide) that it's hard to consider that going bad might be someone's ending. Especially on a show where going bad never seemed to be the point (unlike say, Breaking Bad, where going bad was the point).

(Though apparently no one has a problem sullying Clarice in that way (Argentina). Then again, that ending for her wasn't in the movie, and the books aren't as widespread.)

Again, it probably says something about me and this particular relationship that I think Hannibal sacrificing his freedom for Will is sweet.

Or maybe murder husbands are continually bickering, and on the night things went wrong, Will pushed Hannibal in front, lol. Hannibal would probably respect him for that, though, especially if Will helped break him out later.

Seeing him locked up is interesting in its own way, but I much prefer to see him doing his thing out of jail.

It's horrible that I actually want him on the loose. But then, it seems that most do in the end, since all the books and movies end that way.

I'm imagining his face when Will bites Mason's chef, lol. He's smiling and so damn proud. It's hilarious.

I saw a hilarious post on Tumblr about this, but I don't seem to have saved it and now I can't find it.

Oh, and him with poor Chilton's lip in s3, and the comment about him hoping Chilton isn't too ugly. He has such a wicked, rude sense of humor at times

Hannibal really gets snarky when he's cornered. You really get a lot of that when he's in jail, but even in S2, he taunts Mason or Mason's men about the man he attacked ("did he soil himself?"). It's like once he has nothing left to pretend about, the civilized gloves come off.

Well, today I accidentally wrote post-finale fanfic. Oops.

And I find this hilarious because I actually read said fic and was thinking, "Oh, this is great!" before I realized it was yours. I had bookmarked it and everything, so when I read this comment I went, "...Wait, was that the Molly fic?" then of course it had been. I'll try to leave a comment on it later, but know that it was beautiful and I encourage any other Hannibal fic you feel up to writing!

but in retrospect, it just looks like an obvious ending

I think dark!Will is obvious in a not-so-pleasant way, but the alternative would have been following the canon more closely and maybe having Molly shoot Dolarhyde or Hannibal staying in jail (or being put back there by Will) and I don't feel like that would be true to this version of the show, or frankly interesting. I like that Fuller wants to keep us on our toes; this was not the 'easy' way out for him, but imo it was the right one.

Will has been sullied for a long time, but I think we're so used to 'right' and 'good' triumphing in the end (even that culminates in murder suicide) that it's hard to consider that going bad might be someone's ending.

Yea, I think you have a point there; people want good to overcome and Will to get better instead of worse. That's an understandable and common way to feel, but when it comes down to it Will not being able to escape his demons, not being able to break the cycle of his fucked up and abusive relationship with Hannibal in such a way that would allow him to keep living his 'peaceful' existence is something that I honestly feel is more realistic. More depressing for sure, but this show has always been dark, you have to go into it expecting that, and I'm glad they kept with it to the end because it feels like a natural progression.

(Though apparently no one has a problem sullying Clarice in that way (Argentina). Then again, that ending for her wasn't in the movie, and the books aren't as widespread.)

I did wonder about that! Like I said, I've listened to some Hannibal podcasts and even the people who have read the books don't usually comment on the Clarice ending. (One did, but the others either forgot it, ignored it, or didn't like it.)

Hannibal would probably respect him for that, though, especially if Will helped break him out later.

Hannibal would definitely respect him for that, but given his reaction to Will's actions in the past I also think it would hurt. If Will is truly going to stay with Hannibal I could imagine Will doing the same, allowing himself to be caught and Hannibal to get away. I mean...again with the "They know" phone call. (Again, Will could help him escape, but you KNOW if Will was caught Hannibal would come for him.)

It's horrible that I actually want him on the loose.

So many things about this show are horrible and yet we love them. I feel this way about Hannibal himself, but I've got to give Fuller and Mads all the credit for making him more than simply 'the devil'. Yes he's an atrocious human being, but he's not just that. And I'll admit, his relationship with Will makes him seem a bit more 'human' and sympathetic. (Again, as bizarre as that is, given all the fucking terrible shit he's done to Will. Something Fuller said about crying and feeling bad for Hannibal when writing the s2 finale comes to mind.)

This fucking show.

It's like once he has nothing left to pretend about, the civilized gloves come off.

Those are some of my favorite Hannibal moments. Whispering "He's in the pantry" in the s2 finale, and all his cannibalism jokes that flew over everyone's heads for so long. If he wasn't so snarky we probably wouldn't be as drawn to his character.

And I find this hilarious because I actually read said fic and was thinking, "Oh, this is great!" before I realized it was yours. I had bookmarked it and everything, so when I read this comment I went, "...Wait, was that the Molly fic?" then of course it had been.

Aw, thank you! I ended up wanting to do a scene of someone (who wasn't Hannibal and who Will wasn't there to kill) looking at Will from the outside, and Molly seemed like the most likely person for that, lol. Also, I'm still unsure how dark I see Will (as in, dark, or reeeeeally dark), and having him be enigmatic and just sort there was a good way not to delve into that, lol. Actually, if I ever try writing my S4 fic idea, this could still be a scene in it.

I did wonder about that! Like I said, I've listened to some Hannibal podcasts and even the people who have read the books don't usually comment on the Clarice ending. (One did, but the others either forgot it, ignored it, or didn't like it.)

I'm going to have to read the Hannibal book someday, just to see how that played out. It feels odd for Clarice to run away with Hannibal because she was so morally upstanding. Will (show Will, at least), not so much.

Yes he's an atrocious human being, but he's not just that. And I'll admit, his relationship with Will makes him seem a bit more 'human' and sympathetic. (Again, as bizarre as that is, given all the fucking terrible shit he's done to Will.

The whole show is a study in contradictions, but it's just so well done. Because if Hannibal was never anything but the bad baddie over here, cackling to himself, we wouldn't find him so compelling. It's that he has these desires for connection, and even weaknesses, that make him interesting. And of course, it's interesting to see how his 'love' plays out, because it definitely doesn't take the typical route of 'the one I love is the one I'm different to, the one I'd never hurt.' And speaking of contradictions, I still can't get over how the killing of Dolarhyde was filmed. It was actually beautiful. It was plenty gory, but wasn't gory like other gore on the show, like eye gouging or face eating or meat wings. It was actually beautiful, and I have no idea how they pulled that off.

Whispering "He's in the pantry" in the s2 finale, and all his cannibalism jokes that flew over everyone's heads for so long.

"In the pantry." (Where I keep all my food) lol.

looking at Will from the outside, and Molly seemed like the most likely person for that

Oh, Molly is the best for that. While I'm satisfied with what we got in the show (and think it makes sense that past a certain point, Will might not see or talk to Molly again; he might want to spare her the pain of the upcoming 'separation', it might be best to leave her with mostly positive memories of him), I definitely wouldn't mind getting some deleted scenes with her. Or just one. I wish fandom would do more Molly/Will interaction. (And not the "Hannibal goes to kill Molly" kind, because there's no way even dark!Will would be okay with that, and Hannibal would not want to anger Will in that way. I doubt he would even broach the subject; he has Will, what does he need to mess with Molly for?)

So yea, if you write that fic I'll be all over it! It's a nice premise.

It feels odd for Clarice to run away with Hannibal because she was so morally upstanding.

I think that's the exact problem people have with it; they feel it to be OOC. And I think she might be drugged by Hannibal through at least some of it, so I'm not sure how much agency she has through that, but a lot of people see to have the same problem with Will and Hannibal...they see Will as too good to join up with him. I won't deny that Will has a lot of goodness in him, but s3 Will is far from s1 Will; there's goodness, but there's definitely not only goodness. (Sometimes I wonder if people try to ignore all the darkness in Will because they love him so much and like Will, don't want to admit it's there.)

Because if Hannibal was never anything but the bad baddie over here, cackling to himself, we wouldn't find him so compelling.

And this is why despite Hannibal being awful, he's one of the villains that I like the most. I can acknowledged that he's awful, but he's so much more than that. Villains are often so one-note and boring, and Hannibal is the exact opposite. He has an odd, sick kind of charm distinctly his own.

because it definitely doesn't take the typical route of 'the one I love is the one I'm different to, the one I'd never hurt.'

I guess this is why some people can't ship Hannibal/Will and don't like the ending, because they aren't okay with how fucked up they are and how 'poorly' (there's no word for how horrible some of the things Hannibal does to Will are) Hannibal treats him. Some of those people might be more okay with it if Hannibal DID treat Will differently; if he would never hurt him. That's not how Hannibal is though, and not how Hannibal sees his treatment of Will.

It was actually beautiful.

This is one of those things you have to be there for. Trying to explain how two men ganging up to murder a third in such a bloody, violent death ballet is beautiful would most likely make you sound unstable and demented, lmao. It IS though; the shooting, the music, how intimate it is. It's a culmination of Hannibal and Will's entire relationship and Will's struggle, and it's presented in the most primal, natural way possible. God, the song was so perfect for that scene; I've listened to it so much since the finale and can't get over how absolutely breathtaking the entire last scene was. The presentation is incredible.

And I think she might be drugged by Hannibal through at least some of it, so I'm not sure how much agency she has through that

Yeah, I've never read the book, so I'm not 100% sure either. I know he drugs her for the dinner with Krendler, and he drugs her and tries to get her to actually be Mischa or something, but even drugged, she tells him hell no to that. Then they leave together? But at the end, Barney sees them together in Argentina. Though obviously we have no idea of how influenced she is by outside things like drugs then. Either way, if she's drugged, it's a bad ending for her, or if she's there willingly, that just seems like a complete contradiction of her whole character. Whereas with Will, I definitely see a lot of evidence for it waaaaay before the finale. His moral fiber has been sliding for a while.

(Sometimes I wonder if people try to ignore all the darkness in Will because they love him so much and like Will, don't want to admit it's there.)

I think that could be part of it? It's easy to see him as the 'good' to Hannibal's bad, and if you had asked me before this season, I would have said that anything dark that Will did wasn't *really* him or was just him playing the game (and hating it, not getting any enjoyment out of it). However, now? Oh yeah, Will is really having a battle with himself, and it's a really hard fight.

because they aren't okay with how fucked up they are and how 'poorly' (there's no word for how horrible some of the things Hannibal does to Will are) Hannibal treats him

Hannibal/Will officially wins Most Fucked Up Ship award. How can anyone else even compete. At first, it's one sided abusive, but now I'd say it's equally abusive, as Will has become Hannibal's equal and trying to murder each other seems just another day in the life. In S1, it really was 'poor Will!' Now, I don't really feel sorry for Will, because he's just as bad. The fact that that makes them perfect for each other is just wrong, but there you go.

and he drugs her and tries to get her to actually be Mischa or something

Were they sleeping together too? Because if so, wow, that's yet another level of fucked up.

and if you had asked me before this season, I would have said that anything dark that Will did wasn't *really* him or was just him playing the game (and hating it, not getting any enjoyment out of it

For me, I've always shipped Hannibal/Will but never wanted Will to go dark before this season. The only way I could run with the ship was if Will was unaware of Hannibal's actions, or if he didn't participate in them and still hated Hannibal for it, despite caring about him anyway. (You know, canon.) A lot changed in the last season. I feel like there was plenty of darkness in Will before S3, but it wasn't as apparent until the rewatch. Now I truly believe this show is much better in one go, because otherwise there's so many things to miss. (And in S3...well, that's a whole other story.)

Hannibal/Will officially wins Most Fucked Up Ship award.

I've thought this so many times, lol. Most my ships are fluffy, or if not fluffy, at least relatively happy despite their circumstances; they generally treat each other very well. Hannibal/Will is the opposite of what I'm usually into, but I think that's what fascinates me about them so much. They shouldn't work, but somehow they do. (Which is the worst thing!)

Now, I don't really feel sorry for Will

I probably shouldn't feel sorry for Will, but then again I felt sorry for Hannibal when Will 'broke up' with him, so it still happens despite what they deserve. (Hannibal deserves a long and painful death, and yet I still don't want him to die, etc.) I blame Bryan Fuller for making such complex characters, and Hugh and Mads for being superb actors that draw emotion out of me that I should not be feeling.

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[ SECRET POST #3159 ]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]

Re: Anyone seen the Hannibal finale? [spoilers obviously]