fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3172 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3172 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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(Ollie Locke)

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[Forever]

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[Doctor Who]

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm a lesbian and a feminist and I genuinely cannot stand most femslash fans, and by extension most femslash. So goddamn much of it is exploitative or just to be like "LOL DUMB BOYS AM I RIGHT?? SO PROGRESSIVE TO SHIP GIRLS!!" It's infuriating. Lesbians do not exist to fill a quota.

That's the most accurate and concise way I've ever seen of explaining my problem with femslash fans.

ayrt

It's frustrating as hell. And it's prevalent in a lot of the fandoms I really care about, so I've been biting my tongue trying not to scream about it.

With respect, it's very hard for me to see femslash or femslash fans as being very much different from slash / slash fans.

ayrt

To be fair, I didn't bring up slash or slash fans, but while I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two groups, it feels like the recent major upswing in femslash is a pointed retaliation against slash. Both sides are insulting, but having my own sexuality paraded around on a "boys are dumb!! only girls matter!!" banner specifically to feel superior to slash fans is nothing short of enraging.

I agree that specific thing (BOYS ARE DUMB) is stupid as hell (although I haven't noticed it in anywhere near the same proportion that you apparently have - but I try to ignore tumblr which probably helps a bunch with that).

But I don't think it's stupid or pervasive enough to dismiss femslash totally. And again I don't think you can accuse femslash of anything as a fundamental flaw you couldn't also say of slash. And I get that it's frustrating to have your identity used in that way. I appreciate that. But it's also kind of frustrating to see femslash dismissed so totally and peremptorily, I guess.

ayrt

I should mention, I don't dismiss femslash on the whole! And, in fact, I have quite a few f/f ships myself. It really is just this particular mindset of it, which is extremely prevalent in the fandoms that I'm in (and a few I've osmosed through my dash). Ignoring Tumblr probably does wonders to avoid it, and I'd love to do so myself, but unfortunately it's where all of my fandoms are in their entirety. :(

Femslash fans are the new dudeslash fans. Slash used to be paraded as the progressive alternative to het, now femslash is paraded as the progressive alternative to slash. Nobody pretends slash is progressive anymore because the popular idea is that slash fans are all just straight girls with internalized misogyny who care more about hot fictional gay men than real ones. Then some other girls said "Aha, I can prove I'm morally above the heteronormative het fans and the misogynist slash fans... by shipping pairings that are still gay, but don't have any guys in them!" and here we are now.

In my original work, I somehow have several F/F couples, and I like F/F relationships where that's part of the original character design.

Fandom femslash often annoys me, though, because it just feels like overlaying your sexual fetishes on how you see women. It can be done well, but too often it's someone just wanting all the girls to fit into their fantasies.

I've mostly seen this from straight men and lesbians, but I don't think it's entirely from the male-or-lesbian gaze. I think it's mental laziness and disinterest in the broad variety of possible relationships characters can have.

Women with close female friends are not necessarily romantic about them!

I hate to sound like a one-note caricature here, but literally every single point you're making here has been made at length as a critique of slash shipping. So I really have to ask whether you really think it's something specific to femslash, or why it doesn't bother you with slash, or whatever.

Well, all of that pretty much goes for "dudeslash" too.

But I tend to write more female characters than male, so I don't do a lot with M/M couples myself. I think about writing a M/M relationship now and then, but I haven't really done much with it. Gay men are just not a big part of what I do these days.

And I've never been into M/M slash.

I'm a big fan of franchises with female protagonists, and if they're in a F/F team or partnership, well, then that's like two female protagonists for the price of one, right? So it's been pretty easy for me to end up in femslashy corners of fandom.

When the text says, "These two characters hate each other like sisters," and they each have chips on their shoulders; but the fandom that claim to love the material have them in lust for each other and one even going all submissive--that can turn a fan off to femslash very fast.

overlaying your sexual fetishes on how you see women

I might be being obtuse here but isn't that the purpose of (ship) fic?

[ SECRET POST #3172 ]

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