fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3183 ]

[ SECRET POST #3183 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3183 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 047 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So, I just watched X-Men: First Class and…I don't really get why Erik is wrong, necessarily?

He was completely right that the governments would see mutants as threats and attack them.

He never went after humans who weren't hurting anyone - but he clearly wasn't willing to let people who threatened him walk free.

I mean, at the end of the film, the navies FIRE at them, clearly intending to kill. Erik doesn't take the helmet and decide to go on a killing spree -- he's clearly acting in self-defense. If he just dropped the missiles/bullets in the water, what's to stop another salvo from being sent.

And they're military men too -- it's not like he's targeting civilians.

And Charles, dear god, what were you thinking? "Just following orders" -- to a Holocaust survivor. Was that meant to be an intentionally bad argument?

Moreover, I don't see why Charles blames Erik for being paralyzed. Erik deflected a bullet being aimed at him. That would have killed him otherwise. Could he have halted it in midair? Maybe -- but he only had a split second to think about it and it was clearly an accident. It seems to me that Moira deserves equal blame at least for trying to shoot someone who can control metal.

Just…that film made me side with Erik at least as much as Charles. Charles seemed really naive in a lot of ways...

The problem here is that XMFC is a terribly written movie that doesn't understand the characters it's portraying.

FFS, the 90s X-Men cartoon had a better grasp of Xavier and Magneto's characterization and the moral ambiguity inherent in both their worldviews, and this was a show written to be intentionally dumbed-down for an audience of small children.

I think that was the point of that one? I mean, he was a good guy until the last five minutes or so. All of them had pretty sympathetic viewpoints, really.

Except I am still SO MAD AT MYSTIQUE! I have siblings, and I would *never* turn my back on them like that! The Erik and Charles break seemed very difficult for both, but Mystique? She just says some encouragement to one of her love interests and /totally ignores the person she was *raised* with/???

*has whiny huff at that*

Also, OF COURSE YOUR BROTHER DOESN'T WANT TO SEE YOU NAKED! Put some damn clothes on!

Exactly! I kind of read it as her not wanting to be left behind by the one person that loved her, but it was still very, "No, Raven. Just... Just no." For me.

And I hated how hypocritical her and Erik were about their powers. Mutant and Proud unless you happen to be a telepath. In which case, don't you dare use your powers. As if telepathy is any more or less dangerous than Erik's power.

Frankly, I think if Erik did achieve his dream of a mutant world, mutants would immediately start discriminating and putting restrictions on mutants who can control and influence minds.

Very true. And I thought the holocaust thing made him a hypocrite, too. He's angry that Nazi's killed people who were different, so as an adult...

He decides to go kill people who are different. Wtf, man? You'd be the last one I'd expect to say 'kill everyone with y/without x'.

And I typed that as x/y first, then reversed it. Because I am a simple person, and that makes me smile.

I…kind of understood Raven, to be honest.

Because the entire movie, I got the feeling that her brother, while he loved her, talked down to her (in a paternalistic, though loving, fashion) and didn't take her concerns seriously.

Erik made her feel like she was worth something and understood that she suffered due to being different. Charles meanwhile basically had all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks of being a mutant.

I do agree that her just leaving with Erik was a tad too callous but the way the scene played out, I got the feeling that Charles was telling her to go and that no one had realized the extent to which he was hurt until he said he couldn't feel his legs, by which point they were gone.

But…yeah…I agree that wasn't handled as well as it could have been.

I sympathized with her all through the movie, and I agree with what you're saying about Charles' attitude, but... To just *leave* like that?

*wibbles*

"He never went after humans who weren't hurting anyone." Just in XMFC, yes. Though, in XM:DOPF, he does some pretty dangerous stuff that I can't fathom at least 2-3 people didn't die from.

"If he just dropped the missiles/bullets in the water, what's to stop another salvo from being sent." Well, they have a mutant that CAN teleport them away.

"And Charles, dear god, what were you thinking? "Just following orders." Charles is a telepath. He has a greater insight about what the men are thinking than anyone else. And those ships have hundreds of men. And only a small group is responsible for firing on them. Most probably have no clear idea about what is going on.

What Charles said was stupid, but it wasn't like he had a lot of time to think about what to say.

"I don't see why Charles blames Erik for being paralyzed. Erik deflected a bullet being aimed at him." Well, yeah he should have halted it midair. He could have stopped it instead of flinging them around all willy nilly. If it is okay for Erik to fuck up in a split second, it should be okay for Charles too.

Moira doesn't know that Erik would be strong enough to just stop a bullet. All she knew was that this maniac, dragged a dead body out of sub while wearing the helmet of that dead person, gave a speech about how evil humans were, and was not about to kill hundreds of people.

All in all, it was a fucked up situation and Erik isn't really shown as a bad guy in XMFC.

Though, Erik and Mystique are big fucking hypocrites and that is the biggest problems I have about them.

edit: Oh yeah. Erik YOU HAVE A TELEPORTING MUTANT! HOW ABOUT YOU GET HIM TO BRING CHARLES TO A DOCTOR BEFORE GIVING YOUR WITTY ONE LINER AND BAMFING OFF?

Edited 2015-09-21 23:54 (UTC)

See… I don't mind Erik doing bad things because the narrative seemed to be framing him as an extremist --> antagonist story which kind of implies that that needs to happen.

It's just that the movie seems to suggest that Charles is right when, really, the events seem to be supporting Erik at least as much as Charles.

Sure, they could teleport away. But is it really surprising that Erik isn't going to be content letting people who have actively tried to kill him go, given his history? This is a guy who spent over a decade hunting Nazis.

And, while I don't think it's Moira's fault completely, it just bothers me that Charles pins all the blame on Erik. It was an accident and, as far as I can tell, Moira is at least as much to blame as Erik. In the movie, it says they've only had a little while to train and before that Erik had been using his anger to control his powers.

Plus, the hundreds of people that Erik was going to kill were military personnel who had fired upon him.

Erik's not 100% right but…I don't really think that that makes Charles right either.

"In the movie, it says they've only had a little while to train and before that Erik had been using his anger to control his powers." But Erik has the stopping bullets power down. That was the whole point of the rage and serenity scene. Stopping bullets seems to be pretty easy to do for Erik, it is moving bigger stuff that requires more training.

"Plus, the hundreds of people that Erik was going to kill were military personnel who had fired upon him." Yeah, sure. Military personnel like mechanics and cooks. Erik is generalizing those people the same way that people generalize mutants being evil.

As outsiders we can go, "Duh, it is obvious he is doing that." so I don't fault Erik in not realizing he is doing that.

Neither are exactly right, but if I have to choose one to support, it is going to be the one who doesn't kill hundreds of people.

I guess I just felt like Erik acted reflexively. In Moira's defense, I think she did too.

But my problem is that while I think it's wrong for Erik to blame her for what happened to Charles, I think it's equally wrong for Charles to pin all the blame on Erik too.

As for the issue with the military personnel -- I just have a hard time blaming Erik for that. We don't call Luke Skywalker a monster for shooting at the stormtroopers after Obi-Wan died, even though he could have just left on the Falcon. Nor when he destroys the Death Star. And, I just think it's very understandable how Erik could see even the foot soldiers as responsible because it's not like the Holocaust could have happened with the support of people like them.

I guess my issue was more that it seemed like the film was framing Charles as completely right and Erik as being wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about that but that was the impression I got.

Hm, I didn't really feel that way at the end of the movie. I felt they were both idiots who did stupid stuff.

And I think Charles said that Erik was the one who did it because Erik was about kill Moira. He had to stop him somehow.

Well, Charles had some perspective that Erik didn't in that situation because of his mutation. Being a telepath, he probably did still see the military not as "the enemy" but as individuals who have their own opinions, and may have the capability on a personal level of accepting mutants as part of society in the future.

I see Charles as more optimistic than naive, anyway. He'd have to have been aware of the darker side of people from a young age even if he'd rather not focus on it.
For someone who reads minds, he does really suck at constructing a persuasive argument.

I'm playing devil's advocate here.
I agree that Moira was the real moron of the moment. She's lucky he didn't deflect the bullet straight back at her.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3183 ]

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?

Re: Wait…are we supposed to disagree?