[ SECRET POST #3185 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3185 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 025 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

11. http://i.imgur.com/czTqAo0.png

[(Anonymous)]

At least it makes more sense than Lapis/Peridot or Pearl/every homeworld gem. I find it odd fandom has no issue with the latter pairings.

[(Anonymous)]

On one hand, I am sort of glad that this ship is happening, because as you mention, it happens all the time with male/male pairings and its refreshing to see it with a female/female one for once.

But on the other hand, Lapis feared Jasper to start with and Jasper thought nothing of Lapis. Now I imagine they loathe each other to the point of no return. I don't know how a relationship is supposed to happen after what they've done to each other.

[scrubber]

If two people abuse each other "equally" it's still an abusive relationship.

I don't even know what you were trying to prove with that.

[(Anonymous)]

idk either but i've seen some people who ship it get attacked because omg poor saintly lapis she would NEVER how dare you suggest it. maybe the OP thinks that lapis is obviously capable of having a fucked up relationship or even just interaction with someone, since... she kinda did in canon. like, yeah, it's still abusive, but it's not just a fucked up fantasy that the OP is pulling out of nowhere, they're both obviously capable of pretty shitty/abusive behaviors on their own?

... i dunno.

[scrubber]

I don't know either. I'm just gonna assume:

A) OP's getting their attachment to their own elaborate headcanon confused with canon to the point where they can't see what other people see when they watch the show.

B) OP's seen people shit on those who ship Jaspis and is overly-defensive but not articulating themselves well. At all.

I cannot make heads or tails of your secret OP, but you go ahead and ship whatever you wanna ship.

[erinptah]

Eh, lots of characters start off with hostile/adversarial dynamics, then grow and change and learn to see each other differently. That doesn't have to mean they were "mutually abusive" to start off with -- you can be antagonistic toward someone without being an abuser.

[scrubber]

I feel that there's an obvious difference between people who openly express dislike/disrespect of each other and people who abuse each other. "Hostile" is very subjective and adversarial doesn't mean damaging, abusive does.

Lapis and Jasper are damaging to each other's mental and physical health, AND they fucking hate each other. What's wrong with admitting that they're better off apart? Throwing up the smoke screen of "you'd like it if they were duuuuuuuuuuuuudes~" doesn't change what canon made obvious.

I just wish people would own their fucked-up tastes instead of entering the contest of "But Is It Really Abuse?"

[erinptah]

I don't think everything "damaging" is automatically abusive, either. Whether it's eleven-year-old Ron saying something mean about Hermione that she overhears, or two flying-brick superheroes getting into a punching match, or Pearl being catty towards Greg. If anyone who had ever hurt someone was an abuser, everyone would be.

And I don't see anything in the secret that implies Jasper and Lapis aren't damaging or bad for each other right now! It talks about anticipating character development, not about thinking they're fluffy bffs as-is.

...not that every ship needs to be healthy, of course, and you're right, people who are enjoying the scary current dynamic shouldn't need to hide that.

[scrubber]

I agree that there's a difference between being abusive and exhibiting abusive behavior, but what defines abuse is a pattern of abusive behavior. Sometimes abusive behavior - and therefor abuse - CAN stop, but it'd be really obtuse to pretend all abuse is created equal. (Not saying you are.) My point is, two people can have a relationship that reaches the point of no return and at that time it is far healthier to commit to ending the relationship instead of fixing it. We tell people in real life to cut off their unhealthy relationships, that it is undeniably the right thing to do, but with fiction suddenly everyone gets all optimistic and wishy-washy and starts talking like an abused spouse or something. "I don't know the future, Character could change and get better." "If you really understood Character like I do, you wouldn't hate them for what they do." I don't understand it.

The secret states "I understand why people say it's abusive, but..." which implies that they are going to disagree with that description "abusive." Not only is that not true, but I'm disagreeing with the OP's implied definition of abuse entirely. The rest of the sentence states that Jasper and Lapis have both wronged each other, so "they're pretty much equal in my book." What does that even mean? That two people cannot share responsibility in a abusive relationship?

Amethyst and Pearl are both characters who have shown abusive behavior in the past, and upon realizing their mistakes they (generally, but that's a different discussion I guess) make an effort to apologize. They see what they've done isn't right and try to heal the relationship. I don't think there is any evidence in the show of Jasper and Lapis having that capacity for healing. Jasper/Lapis isn't a couple that is having a rocky time with some hurt feelings, it's a unconsensual bond between two people who viciously hate each other. I think to a lot of people, this is obvious and they react to the pairing accordingly.

I just realize someone basically made this post into a secret.

http://fairymascot.tumblr.com/post/129441877130/jasper-held-lapis-prisoner-without-any-concern

[erinptah]

I thought the "pretty much equal in my book" part was a response to the specific fandom narrative of "Jasper/Lapis is abusive in an unbalanced way in which one is a poor helpless woobie who gets exploited by the other." Not a general denial that mutual abuse can be a thing.

[scrubber]

I would think that too, if it weren't for the "but" earlier in the sentence.

[feotakahari]

It's not an implausible pairing for a redeemed Jasper. Jasper seems smarter than the typical bruiser villain, and Lapis has a goofy side to her. I'm interested to think what it would mean for Malachite--if the fusion is the product of their relationship,then would a healthier relationship change the form and nature of their fusion?

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed 100%.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my opinion that Jasper is more likely to get a redemption arc than Peridot.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with this opinion, and I would much rather watch a Jasper redemption arc than a Peridot one (though idk why everyone is obsessed with redeeming villains in the first place)

[forgottenjester]

Even if they both abuse each other it's still abuse. If they were male it would still be abuse.

All of that forgiveness and working through it you're talking about would mean that there would need to be a lot of explanation and character-building circumstances put in place for the fic to be viable as a healthy and believable relationship. If that was done? Well, fuck, if that's done most things can become a viable ship.

[(Anonymous)]

i don't understand the mindset that you're not allowed to ship abusive relationships.

it's fiction. no one's really getting hurt. and just because a person is intrigued enough to read about it doesn't mean they'd want something like that to happen in real life.

[(Anonymous)]

I ship it but only as a fucked up powerplay but from what I've skimmed on ao3 everything is ooc woobie fluff so, idk, that might bother people. Also tumblr tends to be like that.

[diet_poison]

I don't see it ever being a thing that could happen healthily, but if people want to ship it as it is (fucked up) then more power to them? I don't think it's "wrong" to ship anything in particular.

[(Anonymous)]

LOL people still complain about abusive dude ships (look at the tumblr tag) or even if a slash ship has conflict but isn't abusive. It's how fandom is now.