fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3204 ]

[ SECRET POST #3204 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3204 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #458.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"I've also seen people call het ships "incestuous" simply because the guy and girl grew up together. (Funnily enough, this same argument is never brought up when two guys grow up together)."

In regards, to this, it really depends. Thor/Loki is still incestuous even though they grew up together and most of the shippers acknowledge it. Even if they aren't blood related.

I think there's a difference between growing up as best friends (Ron and Hermoine) and growing up as siblings (Thor and Loki or any other kind of adoptive sibling).

Yeah, I think adoption can get kind of fuzzy. I don't know if you're familiar with Attack on Titan, but a lot of slash shippers (especially Eren/Armin shippers) who made arguments about how Eren/Mikasa was incestuous because Mikasa lived with Eren's family for a year before his parents were killed. Some people argue that they're adoptive siblings, and it's wrong to ship them. Others point out that Mikasa really can't be considered Eren's sibling since she only lived with his family for a year, and she clearly didn't consider his parents to be her family. Also, Armin has known Eren longer than Mikasa.

I tend to agree with the latter group, although I don't ship Eren/Mikasa. (I find it boring). However, I do think that many of these slash shippers probably wouldn't be raising this issue if Mikasa was a dude.

The topic also gets fuzzy when we're talking about a historical context. Cousin marriage was legal for many years, and there's a lot of media about romance between cousins. Is it really morally wrong to ship cousins if it wasn't condemned during that period?

Also, I have to admit that I don't really think Ron/Hermione is the best example? They didn't really meet each other until they were eleven, and they didn't really "grow up together" outside of Hogwarts. I think shippers start bringing it up more if the two characters knew each other since they were very small children (like age 5).

That said, on the flip side, you have het shippers who will do the same thing with two guys that grew up together and start claiming that it's gross for anyone to consider them anything more than brothers. They'll claim a male character meeting a female character as a teenager or adult is more "healthy."

Cousin marriage is still legal and not a moral issue in several countries.

Yeah, I know, but it's condemned for the most part in the West.

The idea of marrying a cousin disgusts me, and I can understand why fandom would be put off by it since it's generally very Western-based, but, yeah, I agree fandom needs to think about other countries.

Same thing with age limits. What's frowned upon here in the U.S. is no big deal in other parts of the world. There may be ages of consent from other countries that would make ME raise an eyebrow or two, but if I'm writing a story taking place in that area and that issue is relevant to whatever I'm writing about, I'm not going to try and insert my personal Western attitude into the story.

I think it's only really "condemned" in the USA, maybe Canada? Am I wrong on this?

It would be side-eyed by a lot of people in Australia, that's for sure.

ETA: If I'd married my cousin it would be seen as straight-up incest.

Fun fact: Charles Darwin's family including him were big into cousin-marrying as genteel 19C English often were, and the resulting inbreeding and genetic illnesses took a huge toll on their health. Darwin bemoaned near the end of his life that he was an example of evolution doing its best to end his line.

Edited (ugh can't english properly today) 2015-10-13 04:19 (UTC)

I'm in Australia and I know someone who dated her cousin. Nobody was surprised, but that was because they were weird hillbilly bogans who looked deeply inbred already. It's totally legal here but very uncommon outside certain ethnic groups.

Were they Tasmanian? :P

Yeah some people have carried their cultural norms here, but amongst white people definitely not so much.

My mother has a story about a couple who were cousins, but it was a one-off case, the family tried to keep them apart, and when they did marry they went through whatever genetic test were available at the time to make sure they weren't going to have something bad come up.

I have also heard it's more likely for genetic problems to crop up in a second-cousin marriage because a lot of inherited illnesses skip generations.

I was curious about this and googled it, cousin marriage is legal pretty much everywhere minus the USA, two countries in Europe, China and India.

...I didn't expect it.

Cousin marriage is illegal in India? I googled this because as far as I knew there's huge cousin marriage rates there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#India

It's only illegal for some Hindus. Among Muslims, cousin marriage accounts for 22% of marriages. Cousin marriage is an everyday thing in India.

I knew that AoT was gonna be brought up when I read this secret.

Gonna be one of "those" fans though and ask, what Eren/Armin shippers have you been following? Because as someone who is pretty entrenched in the ship, their fans always seem to be pretty inclusive when it comes to Mikasa.

I guess that depends on your definition of inclusive?

From what I've seen, there aren't really any Eren/Armin fans that dislike Mikasa or bash her. In fact, many of them like her. However, a lot of them really dislike the idea of Eren and Mikasa together romantically for a variety of reasons (they view their relationship as incestuous, heteronormative, unhealthy, see Mikasa as too dependent of Eren, etc.) Quite a few of them seem to ship her with Sasha or whatever.

I mean, there definitely are people who ship the entire trio together. (I have a friend who does). But I feel like there is a definitive split.

On the other side of the spectrum, I don't really see Eren/Mikasa vocally hating Eren/Armin, and I know quite a few people who ship it. It makes sense, I guess since Eren/Mikasa actually has a chance in canon, and Eren/Armin isn't exactly popular. Most of the Eren/Mikasa shippers I've seen spend most of their time hating on Eren/Levi, instead.

I really don't ship either, but that's just what I've observed.

Eren/Mikasa will never happen, it's clear as daylight. Eren cares more about Armin than Mikasa and Armin is just a friend, so no chance in hell.

Not familiar with Japanese tropes but in the West they'd sure end up together.

I consider it incestuous if kids were raised together as siblings since they were babies. I hate when things do the they're adopted so it's okay to that. Because wtf.

That said if a character's taken into a household after they're like 10, I see them as developing separately and they probably won't see each other quite like brother/sister. Like Barry/Iris doesn't weird me out. Barry has clear memories of his father and mother.

Eh…Barry/Iris weirds me out because they're being raised AS siblings. It'd be one thing if she was "the girl next door" but their situation is way too familial for my comfort, to be honest.

Barry and Iris don't read as incestuous to me because Joe knew about Barry's feelings for Iris and clearly didn't raise them as siblings. They grew up as best friends who shared a parental figure. That's it. And Barry's feelings for Iris pre-dated him moving in with Joe and Iris so...yeah. I don't see anything wrong there. But I also ship both characters with other people and am not super invested in whether or not they end up together. I just like their dynamic and think they have good chemistry.

If they meet each other after they're 16 or so, I no longer consider it incest, and incest is usually a huge no-no for me. For me it depends how long they live together as siblings after that. If they meet at 16 and at 25 still live as siblings, and think of each other like that, a relationship suddenly developing would be weird.

If they meet at 17, are not blood relatives, live together for about 6 months, say, and then a couple of years later start dating after they meet up again, that barely even pings my incest radar. The main issue would be outsiders occasionally getting the wrong idea.

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[ SECRET POST #3204 ]

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