[ SECRET POST #3212 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3212 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 027 secrets from Secret Submission Post #459.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

But the standards and the skill sets are different, and take different levels of effort to acquire. You're supposed to learn to put together a reasonably grammatical sentence or a coherent paragraph in high school--it's a universal expectation that everybody is supposed to be able to meet by the time they're old enough to have a FFN account. (Not that everybody does.) Once you have that, you have the essential tools to write a story.

The essential tools to make art (or at least, to make good art that people will want to buy) are draftsmanship and the ability to use color. Those skills take a lot of time and independent practice to master, they often require specialized equipment, and they are not universally taught.

Whether you use those skills to tell a good story, or to compose a good piece of art, is a whole other ball game, but it's silly to pretend that learning the basic skills involves the same level of effort.

[diet_poison]

Really, anon? Knowing grammar and basic paragraph structure is NOT all you need to be able to write a good story. You need to be good at prose, character development, and organization. Storytelling is more than just stringing words together.

This "art is more ~refined~ than fic" sentiment is bullshit.

[(Anonymous)]

Never said it was ALL you need to write well, or that art was more ~refined~ (whatever the fuck that means). Just that once you do know how to write a sentence and put together a coherent paragraph, you have the essential tools to go on from there. Obviously not everybody invests the time and care it takes to learn to write well, or to tell a story well--and not all of those who do, have something to say. But once they have the tools, practically everyone could.

Few people are given the tools to make good art. Being able to write decently is an expected outcome of every school curriculum; it's considered essential (even though you'd never know that, given how badly some high school graduates write). But nobody considers drawing and painting essential--unless you're notably talented (and often enough, not even then), it's regarded as frivolous and a waste of time. Like it or not, the basic abilities needed to draw fanart are rarer than the basic tools to write fic. And even having the basic tools doesn't guarantee that you have what it takes to make art that that's good, or that is appealing to your fanbase.

[(Anonymous)]

it's regarded as frivolous and a waste of time

... which is exactly what everyone said to me about writing, all throughout school, as I tried to develop my skills.

To people like this (which is, honestly, a large percentage of people in general) writing, acting, painting ... it's all art and therefore all "useless." All forms of art require self-motivation to learn and improve, and anyone can learn and improve if they have that motivation. There isn't an inherent difference, and the way you keep arguing is what's making other posters think you're saying YOUR art is "better."

[(Anonymous)]

Except that I'm a writer. Do please point out where anyone said visual art was "better."

Also, I'm not sure what you're basing your argument on, but IME, in the US at least there are constant, widespread complaints that our public schools fail to teach students to write well, and they come from precisely those people who call for more "rigor" in the curriculum, invariably at the expense of spontaneous play and creativity.

[diet_poison]

That's exactly it, though - they want people to be better at technical writing, like scientific writing or business reports. Which isn't a bad thing per se, but it's not the same as creative writing at all. About the only things they have in common is conventions and basic ideas of organization (and even the latter is often executed differently).

THAT is the kind of writing considered "essential", not creative writing.

And let's be real, even if you never said "drawing/painting is better", you're sure trying really hard to make it sound like you have to have more talent to make it as an artist and that art is more refined (not a hard word to define). And not everyone who has learned technical writing (which even then many people aren't good at, as you pointed out) has the talent to tell a story convincingly or engagingly. AND even those with the talent must practice to refine it.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I don't think I can find words little and short enough to explain this to you so that you'll get it. You go on telling yourself what you want to think.

[diet_poison]

You've resorted to petty insults and an obvious attempt to weasel out of an actual argument. I am so convinced! Good job, anon!

[(Anonymous)]

Um, no. As others are already saying, you must not actually write. Like, at all. Because you clearly have NO CONCEPT of the kind of effort and ability that actually goes into writing an even half-decent story.

I'm actually on the "charging for fanfic is pretty dodgy" side of this debate, but your ideas about writing are so off the mark it's laughable.

[(Anonymous)]

You go on telling yourself that you're a super-special snowflake for being able to write "even a half-decent story," honey.