fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3217 ]

[ SECRET POST #3217 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3217 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #460.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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A Scandal In Belgravia was, to me, a shockingly bad depiction of female characters - whether or not you want to call that misogyny. And the fact that straight characters being mistaken for gay is a common humor trope in British TV is hardly an excuse, especially when they go to such intense lengths to have the characters staunchly reject it.

And also, separately, I think it is a show that is bad in terms of its storytelling, as a television show, and as an adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes corpus.

In conclusion, seriously, fuck A Scandal In Belgravia. Fuck.

Why? A powerful woman who lives life on her own terms is bound to get into trouble occasionally. Irene finding Sherlock fascinating is not a moral failing or a betrayal of her lesbianism (she's professionally bisexual so there must be at least some interest in men burbling in her pysche. Besides theirs was supposed to be a mental fascination.)

I thought it was both a fun outing and very revealing in terms of Sherlock and John's relationship.

The biggest problem for me is that they took a character who outwitted Sherlock, and turned her into a character who was defeated by Sherlock, solely because of her inability to overcome her intense fascination with him, and then literally ends the story looking up at him with wet, doe-like eyes as he saves her life and rescues her from her incompetence.

It's really hard for me to look at a story, structurally, that does that, and make excuses for anything else it does, whether it be using nudity solely for titillation or the way it portrays her sexuality or what have you.

God I hated that last scene so fucking much.

You read the last scene as being saved from incompetence. The most competent person in the world can be bested by circumstances. Maybe you are reading that scene too harshly. There is nothing to suggest (other than Irene being a captive) to suggest she was incompetent. It could well have been a grander scheme to draw Sherlock into helping her in some larger adventure. There's certainly plenty of possible explanations.

If anything, you are selling Irene short.

All of those things are possible. None of them is really present in the text. In the episode as presented, she failed.

except that... you may have forgotten that there was a prologue to this episode in episode 1/3 in which SHE actually saved HIM. The whole point of SIB was to paint the two as equal point for point, right down to the nude scene. that last scene is not his final victory over her gender but his returning the favor.

So wait...does Sherlock being outsmarted by Moriarty (and Irene) completely invalidate everything else his character has done??

DA

I wouldn't think so, but then again, I don't judge male and female characters by different standards.

Well, no, because that's not the end of his story, and he has a ton of other accomplishments and skills in the narrative.

I don't think those things are true of Adler. I mean, she accomplishes nothing.

She ties Sherlock up in metaphorical knots for weeks.Upending his life and making John fear for his mental health. Hardly nothing.

You just don't like Irene.

So the most she accomplishes is being a temporary roadblock for Sherlock?

I love Irene Adler. I don't think this version of her was any good at all.

But Doyle's version where she yanks his chain a few times and then gets married is totally cool? I think you're forgetting how little there was to Irene in ACD canon.

She wasn't a particularly deep character study or anything but neither is the Sherlock version. She was clever and resourceful as a character, and the narrative logic didn't require her abject failure and submission to Sherlock's superior wit and intellect, so she was better.

You're really harping on BBC Irene submitting when she did no such thing. If anything she played Sherlock like a fiddle and used him for insurance and protection. She got him to crack the codes on the documents she'd stolen so they could be used to ruin Mycroft's Bond Airline project.

Contemporary Irene is quite formidable in her skills and talents.

You're listing all the things that happened before she failed and the ending happened

Because female antagonists must succeed 100% of the time or there is no point in writing them? That's just silly. The guy in The Baskerville Hound one failed too. Does that make him a pointless character as well?

They took a character who succeeded, and they chose to make her fail. And in a completely abject way as well. It's not like the character has some being apart from the storylines the creators write about her. They took a good female character and they made her less interesting and less strong. It is bad if you look at it comparatively.

THIS. Take no notice of the shirty Sherlock stan above.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-10-25 23:04 (UTC) - Expand

She defeats him in a battle of wits and marries the man she loves. Are you suggesting that's not an accomplishment, when you have both Sherlock Holmes AND a the Bohemian government on your tail, intent on messing with your life?

Dude, come on. People who loved ACD Irene Adler aren't even going to recognize Sherlock Irene Adler, so it's possible (and probable!) that you could love one version of the character while believing another version to be poorly done.

yeah, agreed. you said it well.

I like Canon!Irene, but I have to point out that all she did to defeat Holmes was get the hell out of Dodge before he could act. He even says "We'll go over there at 8:00 am and she won't be up yet and we can take the photo when we're left to wait in the parlour" and then she's already gone when they get there. Morning people: Sherlock Holmes' Achilles heel.

She fell for the fake fire trick and for Holmes' disguise very cleanly. She got a little of her own back by dressing in disguise and him not recognizing her, but while it proves she's as good as Holmes in that regard it wasn't part of a crafty escape plan. She literally just got on a boat and left town.

Canon!Irene was in love with another dude, married him during the course of the story, and then they left London together and got the hell on with their lives. If the story had been told from Irene's perspective, Holmes would be merely a minor bump in the road. To the extent that I have issues with Sherlock!Irene, it's not that Sherlock outwits her, but that Sherlock is such a big deal for her - someone she has to brood over as much as he does over her, even though canonically we only see him being broody about the whole thing while she's just like "LOL whatever bye." Plus, I wanted to see her slip past him by cross-dressing.

She couldn't have left town without seeing through Holmes' deception, even if took her a while. Not only does she leave town, but she does it with style, neatly punctures the Grand Duke's bullshit story about her being a blackmailer, fools the master of disguise with a disguise practically on his own doorstep and proves herself to be far more honorable than Holmes' client. It might not seem like much, but it's more than most of Holmes' adversaries ever manage to do, which is why she ranks so high in his opinion... and ACD fandom's.

I'm with you on this one.

Especially with the last line. I cannot stand that episode, and I'm never watching it again. It made me so :( because it pinged on target each and every one of about a million tired tropes about lesbians that a lot of others might miss.

Common humour trope in British TV? Well that's okay then! What is the source of the humour? What is the effect? It wasn't tooooooo bad in Sherlock compared to some shows, so some progress yay! but there was an element of elbow-ribbing snigger-worthiness, imo.

yeah fuck that episode. fuck this show.

there's not a lot i get offended at. but i the whole writing behind irene alder pissed me off.

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