[ SECRET POST #3217 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3217 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #460.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[elaminator]

Yea, I'm not necessarily saying John does, I don't think that's implied explicitly in canon, but that moment gave me some pause. I don't see the point of it being included if not to make us curious about the nature of his feelings.

You're probably right in that the scene could be meant to be Irene either projecting or 'playing' with John's emotions, but as for the latter...I don't see why she would. (I guess you could simply say 'because she wanted too', but if she was going to screw with anyone I think it would be Sherlock. She seemed 'genuine' to me in that scene, anyway.)

I wonder if there's an 'official' explanation of that scene (Is there a DVD commentary?) because it didn't make much sense to me outside of a shippy standpoint.

[(Anonymous)]

There's so many types of love that could be applicable to John without it being sexual/romantic, given how tight he is with Sherlock. It could be familial. It could be fraternal. It could just be profound gratitude, given John was in emotional hell when they first met and Sherlock and his unorthodox lifestyle 'saved' his sanity. Point being, love is a many splendoured thing, but even so, it's often hard to quantify when called on it. Especially for men.

[elaminator]

And I do realize there are many types of love and all of them are wonderful, and I even think John's feelings could probably cover several kinds but what I was talking about is that particular scene; it stumps me because Irene seems to be implying a romantic type of attraction.

Or at least that's how I took it... There would be no need for the “I'm gay" line otherwise.

[(Anonymous)]

Except these days for whatever reason, romantic/sexual love is the default setting, even for men. People no longer see to acknowledge that men can have deep feelings for one another that don't involve hearts and flowers. Hence John's now reflexive. 'I'm not gay.'

I'm a shipper, but even I could see that's what they were going for.

[elaminator]

I'm probably explaining myself poorly, or understanding you poorly, or maybe both. I'm not trying to say that John is in love romantically with Sherlock in canon, but that I do think the scene was shot and worded in such a way that some people would be left wondering about it, hence why I thought of it as queerbaiting. (Even though John once again says he's straight and we have no reason to not believe him, it feels that way to me. Maybe if I watched it again it wouldn't. And frankly, even if it were I don't think that's the worst thing in the world, just an observation. Maybe it was a bad one... I'm not sure anymore.)

But you're right in that clearly Irene doesn't believe him. Which doesn't mean anything, she doesn't need to be right, he doesn't need to be lying or in denial, but of course a lot of people do jump to romantic love rather quickly, in fandom especially, no matter the gender of the characters. Not saying I haven't done it myself either.

[(Anonymous)]

Ayrt

For the record, I ship them with no qualifiers, but even outside of that mindset, this is a point where the audience will consider the possibilities of what John feels for Sherlock because a character on screen directly brought up the subject. Whatever that bit was for - and you're right that someone made a deision to include it, these things don't happen by accident - if no one is supposed to even let the thought cross their minds then it shouldn't have been written the way it was.

[elaminator]

Yea, idk, I thought of it that way too, that there isn't really point in bringing it up again, especially in a moment that seems so serious and poignant, but after other anons comments I'm confused and wondering if I misinterpreted something.

See, usually when people jump to the “their relationship is a romantic one" conclusion John says, “I'm straight!" and people believe him or not, and that's about it. This time, IIRC, he says, “I'm straight!", she says, “I'm gay" as a way of going, “So? That word does not dictate your feelings, emotions are unpredictable" and it comes off feeling like more than a joke. I think John even gives a small chuckle or smile after that; it's a weird scene to include if we're supposed to walk away believing that Irene is just yet another person that won't take John's sexuality seriously... I felt like I was supposed to take away something from it, but again, that the show wasn't going to come back to it, hence queerbaiting.

But honestly idk, now I feel dumb and like I read too much into it.

[(Anonymous)]

See the one of the queer-baiting things ... John says "I'm not actually gay" and she replies "Well I am, and look at us both." the implication is that she believes, correct or not, that he feels the same way she does about Sherlock. Saying "I'm not gay" is a different thing to "I'm straight" and in fact that's what he always says. Not that I believe it will become canon but if when people questioned their relationship he said "I'm straight" I'd think 100% they are just trying to mock the fact that people have always said that stuff about Holmes and Watson but by leaving his sexuality open they allow the fans to project what they want on the relationship.