fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3245 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3245 ⌋

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So, in the thing I'm working on right now, there was a big roughty-toughty mans-man type blacksmith. Who is gay as shit. I realised recently that I have more male characters than female characters so I thought "Hell, I've already broken gender roles for my female lead, why not make my roughty-toughty blacksmith a woman? This is now where I find myself...but now, I have a butch-gay tough girl tomboy blacksmith woman which is kinda a horrible stereotype, right? So what do I do? I'm leaning towards avoiding the stereotype and keeping her female by making her straight, but this would remove a gay character. On the other hand I also have a fair number of gay or bi women in the story so would turning one gay character straight really be a massive problem? Is it really such a problem to keep the character as a gay woman stereotype? I'm not comfortable with it, but is my comfort really so important?

Advice please?

Do whatever seems most interesting to you.

Have her be a butch-gay tough girl tomboy blacksmith submissive.

Down w/ this suggestion tbh

I'd love to see more submissive-inclined butch women anyway. The usual stereotype that just because they're butch, they must be dominant because masculinity lul bugs me.

A butch girl who is butch because she's comfortable that way which has nothing to do with her sexual preferences would be great. Now I want to see a butch blacksmith crushing on the strong feminine knight lady she makes swords for

I may need to do something with this.

tbh i would read literally a thousand books about this relationship / on this theme

Story of my life *sigh*. Back when I was 16-25 I was a tough and self assured butch but wanted nothing more than a dominant femme to "sweep me off my feet". Never found anyone like that though because most self-assured, cool, intelligent lesbians I met were butch.

That's still kind of a cliche, though. A sexually submissive woman?

Yup. Infact I would say it's a more harmful cliche than a sexually dominant tomboy straight woman.

Well, true, but if she's gay and she's partnered with a more dominant woman that balances out that one.

and/or make her lighthearted and fun. You see a lot of "tough woman = grim, growling and joyless."

Develop her character a little bit more. It's only bad if you're lazy about her character.

thirding the sub suggestion btw

I think these stereotypes are worst when they exist in isolation so that the characters can easily be read as a stand-in for that group as a whole. If you've got other gay women who don't fit these stereotypes, then I don't think you need to worry about implying anything about them.

How many gay men do you have?

Now that I think about it none. Not anymore anyway... Shit is that erasure?

Nah

geez, no. you're creating characters, not taking existing ones away. nobody has made a emotional connection with them yet except for you.

If you care strictly for social justice issues, then yes it kinda is; but in the hierarchy of social justice issues, then lesbian women are far far more marginalised than gay men so I think you have more than enough grounds to keep things the way they are.

Maybe turn a straight male into a gay character?

What feels right for the character and the story? Fuck "representation." Story uber alles.

think first and foremost what really works best for your writing. what makes the story more interesting? what are you capable to write? what is more fun?

presentation isn't just for brownie points or an esoteric balance of justice. a diverse cast makes your world more believable and interesting. It can also play with the reader's expectations. but it only works if you're actually interested in what you're creating (which I'm guessing you are, given the cast).

even a stereotype can be fun, as long as you know the pitfalls that make the actual people roll their eyes. after all butch lesbians exist.

your comfort is important because you'll be the one who spends the most time with your creation.

Don't write characters on a quota.

You're overthinking this.

Two issues here: 1) You seem to feel like you need a certain number of people per gender/race/sexuality/etc. and 2) You're worried about writing stereotypes.

As far as 1) goes, you don't have to fill a quota, you know? It's more important to pay attention to your unconscious biases when it comes to creating characters.

As an example, a friend and I are co-writing a thing, and we were bandying about creating a mentor character for our MC. I asked for a name suggestion, and she came up with a bunch of guys' names, to which I said "oh, I wanted a woman actually??" And she had a moment of "ugh" because that's what an unconscious bias is - you think "older, experienced, wiser, leader" and you think it's got to be a guy. Same deal for other minorities.

Be aware of those biases and work to get past them

Now, as for 2). A stereotype is only harmful if it plays into negative associations. An ugly person being the bad guy is a harmful stereotype. A gay man being a sexual predator is a harmful stereotype. That's the sort of thing to be worried about. A butch lesbian blacksmith is not a harmful stereotype if she gets to be an actual person. If she gets to have her own independent hopes and dreams, and the agency to act on them, you don't have to be so concerned about whether she happens to fit a stereotype or not - because she won't look like one, she'll just be another awesome character.

WHOOOOOOO CAREZZZZZZZ

Some characters are going to fit classic types, it's OK.

[ SECRET POST #3245 ]

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