Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2015-11-29 03:32 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2015-11-29 03:32 pm
[ SECRET POST #3252 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3252 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 047 secrets from Secret Submission Post #465.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2015-11-29 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)I think you're being naive. If the situations were reversed and the actor who plays Gus was playing Lassiter, and Lassiter's actor played Gus' role...come on. We'd have a bunch of fans arguing the exact opposite of what you're arguing now:
"*Shrug* There's no problem here I mean face it slash fans love when there isn't a heteronormative dynamic between them. Slash fandom lives for Best Friend Ships, it totally wouldn't matter if his best friend was white or black."
Black!Lassiter would be completely relegated to the back burner. Just because there are a few interracial slash ships in a sea of pretty white men with other pretty white men doesn't mean that racial bias doesn't play a huge role in what people slash, and it doesn't mean that this is a solved issue, and that we shouldn't talk about it.
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I can't speak for Psych fandom because I don't watch the show, but in my experience simple, happy, BFF ships aren't all that popular in slash fandom. Look at how unpopular Harry/Ron is in Harry Potter fandom compared to Harry/Draco, Harry/Snape, Harry/Voldemort. Back in the day it was easier to find Harry/Lucius Malfoy fic than Harry/Ron. In YGO fandom the biggest ship is Kaiba/Joey, despite Joey/Yugi having some great and moving moments. One Piece fandom ships Zoro/Sanji, Steve/Bucky wasn't that big until CA:WS came along and made Bucky tragic.
I think the racism people see in fandom's shipping preferences is influenced by the fact that black characters are mostly relegated to the BFF sidekick role and slash fandom just doesn't care all that much about friend ships. /bitter friend shipper
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(Anonymous) 2015-11-29 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)Obviously, it doesn't work that way for everyone, but there is a LOT of shipping between adversarial characters, it's always been popular, and it just seems to be a really common thing in fanfic.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 12:10 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 02:34 am (UTC)(link)Er...I mean...this isn't necessarily true at all. Off the top of my head, Makoto/Haruka from Free!, massive juggernaut pairing that blew Rin/Haruka out of the water to the point where merchandise and fandom pandering died out to the point where the fans of that pairing are really angry. Then Sousuke/Rin became the other juggernaut pairing, yet another "childhood best friends" pairing. Both of these pairings consistently beat out Rin/Haruka by far in fandom popularity polls, doujinshi circles producing for them, etc, and Rin/Haruka is the definitive rivalship.
Sengoku Basara, Kojuurou/Masamune has a massive lead over Masamune/Yukimura, despite the other pairing being a rival ship. Being so close that they're considered a part of one another's body is apparently enough to trump rivalshipping.
Looots more I can think of, but these two were talked about recently on the secret community and they're fresh in my head from participating in discussions. Both of these have huge fandoms too.
More: NCIS: LA Sam/Callen is the default ship, best friends. Hawaii 5-0, default ship is best friends. Star Trek's Kirk/Spock, Starsky and Hutch, Sentinel, etc.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 04:54 am (UTC)(link)They shows don't attract people who prefer adversarial relationships because there's nothing for them to hook into, so of course there isn't really an adversarial slash ship in amongst the fandom's top ten.
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(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 07:58 am (UTC)(link)For Sengoku Basara, ahaha there is a HUGE amount of subtext between Masamune and Yukimura. There is a reason they're up there in the popularity rankings even if they fall way behind Kojuurou/Masamune. They have everything rivalshippers love, passionate fights, respect for one another, desire for a fair fight, some dialogue you can take the wrong way if you don't understand Japanese idioms (Yukimua's motif is fire, and much like Rin from Free! he can frequently be heard about being "fired up" by Masamune), and when they get into disagreements, they happen to get close to threaten one another:
http://i40.tinypic.com/np2g42.jpg
The only reason Kojuurou/Masamune wins hands down is because of the literal soul bond Masamune and Kojuurou have together. (Masamune is known as "The One-Eyed Dragon" and Kojuurou is "The Dragon's Right Eye", because Masamune considers Kojuurou to be part of him, and trusts him to always fight at his back, covering his blind spot.) By all fandom preferences Masamune/Yukimura should be the fandom juggernaut. Kojuurou is ten years older than Masamune, he's rough and bara looking, he's stoic and quiet, he lacks the "passion" Yukimura shows (although he has his own), these two lack the "sexy" scenes that titillate fangirls in favour of softer, more emotional scenes (http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37700000/Sengoku-Basara-the-anime-kingdom-37719361-1280-720.png) that show the depth of their relationship with one another, but as we see in other fandoms that often backfires with cries of "they're like family".
So...yeah your comment is entirely ridiculous, the top two shows I mentioned thrive off of having rivals in them, so of course they attracted rival shippers. It's just that the best friend shippers in these fandoms won out for one reason or another.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 10:13 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 02:02 pm (UTC)(link)Thank you lol the ayrt is doing so much goalpost moving to try and justify...whatever the hell they think they're trying to justify. To be honest they sound like a salty rival!shipper that can't conceive of both rival!shippers and best-friend!shippers being attracted to the same show, and that sometimes best-friend!ships do win over rival!ships in terms of fandom popularity.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)There are a TON of BFF slash juggernauts, starting with the seminal Star Trek:
- KIRK/SPOCK
- Jack/Daniel
- Sheppard/McKay
- Holmes/Watson (BBC)
- STEVE/BUCKY
And that's really just off the top of my head.
no subject
Sheppard/McKay became friends eventually, but they argue all the time and in the beginning they didn't exactly like each other. I can't even explain what's going on with BBC Holmes and Watson but it's not a normal, supportive friendship either. And I think I actually mentioned Steve/Bucky in my post; back in CA:TFA when Steve/Bucky was a ship between two best friends who were always there and supportive of each other it wasn't a big ship. The ship became huge with WS when Bucky was suddenly all tragic and it became an angsty struggle against Bucky's brainwashing. Before TWS Steve/Bucky actually used to be one of my go-to examples of a BFF ship doing poorly.
The point I was trying to make is that slash fandom at large doesn't like ships with BFFs who are "just" BFFs, especially if the BFF is more of a sidekick-type character to the main character BFF. I might not be explaining myself well; to me, there's a difference between the most of the pairings you listed and the ones I did (and am thinking of in this discussion).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-29 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)I do think racism plays a role in the lack of Shawn/Gus, a little bit. But I don't agree that a black Lassiter would have killed the Shawn/Lassiter ship.
Like I said in the secret, my first slash ship was similar in some ways, with a small talkative annoying guy, who was white, and a bigger aggressive, put-upon character, who was black. And that was the fandoms most popular slash fic, by a long shot.
People do like a lot of best friend ships, but usually they like the ones that have a bit of seme/uke to them, and you can't shove Shawn/Gus into any kind of seme/uke mold.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-11-30 02:37 am (UTC)(link)Yeah you can? This doesn't fly. :/ Like 90% of Gus/Shawn is with Shawn bottoming. There's a clear fandom preference.