fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3267 ]

[ SECRET POST #3267 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3267 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #467.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random advertisement for porcelain doves ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

An example: Before Sherlock made a habit of "Hur hur, people think John and Sherlock are GAAAAY!!! Hur hur!!!" I didn't have a problem with, say, the scene in the diner shortly after they first meet and Sherlock thinks John is interested in him.

And not only did I not have a problem with it, I actually liked it, because it was recognition that gay people exist and that's fine. John wasn't gay and didn't want to be misidentified, but he wasn't all "THE HORROR!!" (yet). Recognition still felt like positive forward motion to me, and I appreciated it.

I recently came across a similar situation in a different, well-established fandom that I was looking forward to reading reaction to, and literally everyone was absolutely livid over it. And that seemed to stem mostly from there not being enough representation on the show. They didn't give a fuck about the recognition, they -- I guess -- wanted to turn back the hands of time and recast with acceptably diverse people (even though from a race and gender standpoint, the cast was pretty diverse. Just cishet).

And it just seemed like counterproductive screeching to me. And I get wanting more representation -- I really do -- but I don't think we need to castigate established canons that try to include some recognition. Because the alternative is nothing at all.

But IDK. Maybe I'm not being "progressive" enough?

I try not to worry about it too much.

Wanting representation rather than just recognition is a very new thing. Ten years ago I was thrilled when I discovered that there was media out there that "queerbaited" (naturally it wasn't called queerbaiting back then though) because I was unfamiliar with anything not aimed at queer audiences intentionally nudging you to ship the characters in gay pairings. My friends, who were also mostly gay and bi, introduced me to all this anime and manga with intentional gay subtext and characters who were teased about being gay and we all loved it just for that. These days if I told anyone that, they'd either call me gross or not even believe me.

Yes! Down to the timeframe, 10 years ago there were shows recc'd to me that I watched and loved because I loved the subtext. Whether it was intentional or not (and sometimes it was intentional) it was GLORIOUS.

Now? Sheesh. Welcome to getting called some kind of phobic or fetishist. When, no. Really, I can like Sense8 and How to Get Away with Murder and Orange is the New Black with all the rest of them, but I can also like all these other shows, too.

Oh god, "gross" is a word I'm sick of hearing from the neofans. Pretty much, if it's not used as synonym for large or egregious, I'm so fucking over it. If you're watching a show and saying "Ew! You're gross!" when people behaving "problematically" you're being a fucking infant, and you need to stop.

Gay person here, too, and I agree! I mean, it never seemed POSSIBLE to have gay characters - you'd see them occasionally, but they were rare and often stereotypes (but even that was generally cool because wow, canon gay). And queerbaiting (didn't call it that at the time) and intentional homoeroticism seemed amazing.

I still think there's a very thin line between queerbaiting and homoerotic subtext, but I'm to the point where it's definitely frustrating to have what seems like homoeroticism, only to have the characters' straightness shoved down my throat at a later point - and even denial of them being gay, eliminating the chance for entertaining a possible bisexual moment. I still like gay subtext when the characters don't have opposite-sex love interests, but it's kind of to the point now where I want equal opportunity for gay canon to be the end game. And rather than just delight in the tiny maybe-gay moments, I'd like a real chance at love stories turning out gay and making it canon (without the characters being coded as "gay" from the very beginning, and preferably with the main character). I think we're starting to see that, but it's still pretty rare.

Didn't that pretty much happen on Southland? Not that one show makes up for a lifetime of nothing, but still.

I'd like a real chance at love stories turning out gay and making it canon (without the characters being coded as "gay" from the very beginning, and preferably with the main character).

That's what I want, and posted a thread about it several months ago, and pretty much everyone that posted in the thread agreed that it would never happen, which I found depressing.

Can I ask what you're starting to see it in? It sounds like I might've missed some interesting stuff and I need to check it out!

ayrt

Well, I was thinking of Korra, though they weren't allowed to kiss or anything and a desperate person could've maybe read them as "good friends" - but still, mainstream kids' show. I don't think it's even typical to have established gay characters as protagonists, let alone ones whose sexuality is later revealed to be gay (except on like, Ellen's show I suppose!). I'd love to see more of that, or more bi characters as protagonists.

ayrt

Ah, that explains it.

I don't think it's even typical to have established gay characters as protagonists, let alone ones whose sexuality is later revealed to be gay

In the thread I mentioned before, people were saying that there was no way characters would be revealed to be gay later on, after the audience already knew them and assumed they were straight, but I feel like...that'd be kind of a cool way to do it because that's the way it happens in reality. People assume their family member or friend is straight until they come out to them and then they (ideally) eventually realize that it doesn't change who the person is and they accept it. Studies have shown that actually knowing gay people is a huge factor in making people more accepting, and on popular shows where people watch it every week for x amount of years and feel like the characters are part of their family, it'd kind of be like their uncle came out or something. Idk, I'm probably not explaining it well but I feel like that'd be a better way to do it than where all characters must be stated to be gay from the very beginning so people can just put them in the gay box and not have to be surprised when someone they love turns out to be gay.

Southland revealed a very butch cop as gay in a later season. Brothers and Sisters made a character who was maybe coded a little gay but demonstrated as straight actually deeply closeted around midseries.

when I read "bisexual moment" I remembered how much I loved that in The Whole Nine Yards II they actually pulled it off so the two leading males hooked up (when they weredrunk). It was simply the logical consequence to all the homoeroticism going on for 1 1/2 movies.

Bi (back then identiying as a lesbian) here and it was the same for me.

Sorry we're not all content with being baited, usually as a laugh. Some of us aren't stuck in the 90s and early 00s and think media should be move beyond merely acknowledging that non white/cis/het people exist.

they didn't say that all that media needs to do is acknowledge that non-white/cis/het people exist

they said that acknowledging that is a good thing

So...what? They want asspats for shows that half-ass it?

They like it and want not to feel guilty about liking it, I imagine

I mean, I'm not telepathic, especially over the Internet

it's "Progressive" people like you with your stupid teleological approach that really piss me off, because it's just whining and no analysis. People like you rave all over Jessica Jones being oh so progressive and feminist and then you shit all over buffy for having "so outdated 90s feminism bleh" when it's point for point the same fucking thing. The same dilemmas, the same kinds of romance, responsibility, sex-issues, women, all of it. Except for the fact that Joss Whedon suffers of a mild case of tokenism, but at least he tries.
What I wanna say is, if you stopped masturbating on how progressive you are you would maybe realize that your fucking progress is just rehashing 80s and 90s ideas but ON TEH INTERNET5!!1!

Wow, u mad? Your assumptions are hilarious. I love Buffy and have no desire to watch Jessica Jones. I do want to see more gay, asexual, trans, races, etc., on my TV screen.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3267 ]

Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all

Re: Representation, Recognition and nothing at all