[ SECRET POST #3307 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3307 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #473.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

How is it sexist to treat the women exactly the same as the men? We saw everybody's violent death. Rather awesomely, really. How is one violent death different from another when they're all motivated by the exact same thing? There was no particular violence directed specifically towards women only, there was no violence directed at women because they were women, there was just externally driven hatred and violence in all directions and the main reason Harry survived where everyone else didn't was a) training and b) bullet-proof suit and gadgets. There were fewer female deaths focused on than men (I think I counted four or five - initial headshot, second headshot, trio impalement, axe blow). In a massacre action scene, what more do you want? What makes the women's deaths different?

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

I'll be honest I kinda suspect you're trolling me, but I'm willing to argue in good faith.

What makes the women's deaths different?

A cultural history of violence against women at the hands of men.

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the one trolling. You really think that politely shepherding the women away from the bloody bits, purely on the basis that they are women, is less sexist than showing them fighting and dying alongside the men on an equal footing?

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't think we live in a culture where showing violence against women is ever ok. Atleast not when we're supposed to cheer and root for the man doing it.

And they're not on equal footing. On in this world, and as an extension, no in the world the film is set it. Violence against women has cultural implications that we don't need to glorify, And let's be honest glorifying violence was the exact point of that scene..

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

To never show women involved in violence at all only falls into another sexist trope, where women are delicate, incapable flowers who can do no wrong and can have no wrong done to them. That is equally sexist. Harry in this scene wasn't killing standing targets. Everyone there was affected with the exact same hatred he was, they were all trying to kill each other and they were all trying to kill him. The women are doing the violence as well as receiving it, and as said before the only reason Harry lives where they don't is a) training and b) superior equipment. In this scene, where the only rule is mindless violence, yes, they were very much on an equal footing, said training and equipment aside, and only Harry has that. The rest of the men are equally vulnerable, and I'm pretty sure several go down at a woman's hands in the background.

What would you have preferred? That it turned out that even when infected with a rage virus the women proved incapable of fighting? That a family church for some reason had no women in the first place? That since the close-up killings are Harry's POV, that none of the women in that church proved dangerous enough to try and kill the most efficient killing machine there? That they were all too scared, even through the hate virus, to even try? Which of these sounds less sexist to you?

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. Avoiding showing violence done to women is in no way sexist. Women can be shown engaging in violence, but that's not what this was. This was violence being done to them, and the audience expected to cheer at it. This was not a woman in a fight, this was women being butchered for entertainment.

And again, I wish I could remember the name of that law, but the internal logic of a piece of media does not excuse the film-makers of wrong doing. Yes, The fight had to happen. they did not have to show the women being butchered. That was distasteful and really insensitive to women in the real world who experience violence.

I would have preferred them to just not show the women's deaths. there was no reason to include it. the scene would not have been affected by us only seeing the guys fighting. The women would all have still been there, still doing the same stuff, but we just wouldn't have seen any of the gruesome shit that happened to them.

Ok, Let's try this. The bit later in the film where the mom is trying to kill her baby. What of the story had been different and the mom had succeeded. How would you feel about these two ways of showing it:

1. the mom breaks into the bathroom, the camera zooms in and then past her weapon and we the next shot is back in the bond villain base where we never cut back to the bathroom. Maybe later we see the mom covered in blood crying or something. Or
2. the camera stays in the bathroom and we hear, I don't know, a catchy song by a bunch of child killers play while we see her tear the baby to shreds?

Which one of those two scenes is ok?

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

If it had only been the women's deaths that were lingered over, or if the women's deaths had been treated differently, I might agree with you. They weren't, though, if anything they were less focused on than the men's, and given the set-up of the scene, given that everyone was enraged, everyone was fighting, and everyone was dying, there is no way to elide the women without running into one of the unfortunate implications I mentioned above. If they can't fight and die on the same footing as everyone else in the scene (which they did, bar Harry for the reasons stated above), then it just becomes sexist for other reasons entirely.

It also wasn't violence being done to them, or no more than it was being done to anyone else. They were being plenty violent right back. The fact that they lost is a different matter. They were trying to kill people just as much as people were trying to kill them, and for the same reasons. It wasn't violence directed at them for reasons of what they were, there was no parallel to real life violence, it was a hate virus that caused a mindless killing spree by all affected. Everyone was equally affected. Real life reasoning, even in-universe reasoning, went out the window. Nobody was in control of what they were doing.

The scene wasn't glorifying violence towards women. It might have been glorifying violence in general, given how generally awesome the scene was and the fact that 'Free Bird' was playing over the top of it, but then again there is the scene immediately afterwards. If the scene were truly glorifying violence, then Harry would not have been almost broken by horror and remorse immediately afterwards. The violence was done to him as much as to them. The action was awesome. The aftermath was horrifying. The killer doesn't glory in what he's done. As soon as he regains his mind and senses it cripples him instead. Which might possibly have been the point, since we're all hyped up on the incredible action scene, and then straight afterwards we're slammed in the face by the consequences of it.

The scene is not an assault on a single person, it isn't mimicking real life assault. It is an incredibly over the top action set-piece motivated by science-fiction interference, where everyone is being violent to everyone else, and where the victor is crippled by horror and remorse immediately afterwards. I'm sorry, but I just do not see any particularly sexist elements in that, and I still give it points for allowing the women to fight just as hard and just as violently as the men, for a woman to be among the last people standing (axe lady), and for the only real reason they lost to have been as outside their control (Harry being an incredibly well-equipped and well-trained agent) as the reason they were fighting in the first place (sci-fi hate virus). If Harry hadn't had a bullet-proof suit, he wouldn't have survived. And, in a sense, he didn't.

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

Women are delicate and very special and exist only to be sheltered and protected. They shouldn't be in action movies at all, unless they're at safe at home, worrying about their menfolk as they fight to protect them. They could make a roast or something while they're worrying, or tidy up the house. It's not like they've got anything better to do. They'd just better make sure they're wearing gloves, because we live in a world in which hot stoves and harsh detergents unfairly target women, and showing that in a movie that's meant for entertainment is just sick and wrong.

Re: Favorite movie scenes of all time

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I'm sorry, I just disagree. This all reads like justifications to me, and I'm not sure I'll ever get you to see why showing women being butchered is a bad thing, and that kinda makes me sad. I think we should just agree to disagree on this.