fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3314 ]

[ SECRET POST #3314 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3314 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yes, if it makes you uncomfortable, it counts as creepy. Some people think this is SJW talk, but it's actually what you're taught in most workplace sexual harassment training sessions. So unfortunately there's no way to totally make sure you're never creepy to anyone. The difference between being creepy and being a creep, though, is whether or not you stop doing the creepy thing when you're told it's making someone uncomfortable.

No, if I recall my sexual harassment training there's usual some sort of 'reasonable person' clause. Like, would a reasonable person find this cause for concern? I mean, my co-worker can't just decide that me putting my stuff in my locker is creepy and have my boss make me stop doing that. That's unreasonable.

What if the creepy behaviour is something you're perfectly entitled to do?

For example, breathing through your mouth is considered creepy, but what if a person has respiratory problems? Should he have to stop or he's a creep? Example at random. What if he doesn't have respiratory problems, it's just the way he breaths, should he really have to modify that behaviour just because it's creepy?

"being a creep, though, is whether or not you stop doing the creepy thing when you're told it's making someone uncomfortable."

So if I refuse to stop writing notes in my notebook because it's making my coworker uncomfortable for some reason, I'm a creep?

Yeah, kinda. If it makes her uncomfortable and she tells you to stop, and you knowing it makes her uncomfortable keep it up? That's a creepy thing to do.

Well that's patently ridiculous.

"Sorry sir. You're going to have to stop taking notes because this person finds it creepy. From now on, just work on developing an eidetic memory."

Sorry sir. You're going to have to stop taking notes here because this person finds it creepy. From now on, just move somewhere away from this person who finds your behaviour creepy if you are unable to stop this behaviour.

Huh. almost like human courtesy isn't actually that hard, eh?

da but what in the world?

Anyone can certainly find any behavior creepy, but that doesn't mean other people are actually being creepy. Me existing or going about my normal business might creep out someone but it's not on me to change. After all, I'm a lesbian and lots of people find me kissing my girlfriend creepy, but I'm not going to just stop doing that because I make someone uncomfortable.

And if they need to be in the same area as the person who is being ridiculous by finding note-taking creepy? IE a work space or a school or honestly any public place?

"Sorry sir, can you just make sure that if this person comes into the room, you leave or commit everything to memory while they're there."

Some things bother people that they can't help, and to a degree, human courtesy should kick in if at all possible to minimize that discomfort. Sometimes people are bothered by things that unfortunately they will have to accept that they are going to be bothered by because there cannot be an expectation that the world stops doing that thing.

+1000

Well that's a ridiculous analogy. Bye, troll.

The example was note-taking... how am I being a troll for using it in an analogy?

And if something as innocuous as note-taking (in a workplace) makes someone feel uncomfortable, that's honestly on them, not the note-taker if their job is something that justifies the note-taking (or honestly, even if it doesn't, as some people just don't have good memories).

There's got to be a line drawn somewhere.

It's one thing to not tell racist/sexist/bigoted jokes in the presence of a sure-to-be-offended third party. But WRITING IN A NOTEBOOK? We still live in a society where that is generally not considered "creepy" behavior. It's not even rude behavior unless you're at a meeting that for some reason has banned the use of notebooks. And how do you know someone is writing in a notebook unless you're LOOKING RIGHT AT THEM? I mean, if you find something objectionable, don't you have SOME responsibility to not put yourself in a position where it might offend you? Racist joke, yeah, you can't help that, because Bob's a fucking asshole. Someone writing in a notebook? STOP LOOKING AT THEM and MYOB. Put on some earphones. Focus on your work. You're probably doing lousy work because of all the energy you spent being offended by someone writing in a notebook.

Look, even if the offended person has a bad memory tied to a creepy person who for some reason loooooved to write in notebooks, there is no way for the current notebook writer to know this, and therefore, it is not their problem. Offended person needs to get some therapy because it sounds like they're walking a dangerous line between getting offended and being the offender. Or do you think it's also acceptable to run around the workplace saying that people should stop working at their desks because desks remind you of "hard wood" and that's related to dicks so it's creepy. (Yes, that's a ridiculous example, but no more than "creepy" notebook writing.)

I think the good old "reasonable person" standard applies here.

For instance: There are a lot of reasons someone could be writing in a notebook. They might be working on a novel, planning a project, keeping a diary--all things that pertain only to themselves. The majority of reasonable people would probably not be made uncomfortable by the sight of someone writing in a notebook. And even if they were, they probably would realize that just because it makes them uncomfortable, that's not a reason to ask the person to stop doing it.

On the other hand, writing in a notebook while following somebody around probably meets most reasonable people's standards for creepiness. And hiding in somebody's dumbwaiter? Definitely creepy.

Okay but. When we say 'uncomfortable' that's a pretty broad word. If we're going by the rule that anything that makes someone uncomfortable is creepy-what about calling out someone who's making bigoted remarks or jokes.

Surely if you call out their comments or jokes as bigoted you will put them on the spot and make them feel uncomfortable.

So if you continue to call them out on their bigotry despite their discomfort you are being by your own words a creep.

So in that situation,what would be more important? Addressing bigoted behavior, or not being a creep?

Exactly. There are probably people who feel uncomfortable in the presence of someone with tattoos or piercings: is it reasonable to ask someone to cover up their tattoos or remove their body jewelry because it makes you uncomfortable?

If you google "gang stalking," you'll find that a surprising number of people believe in all seriousness that they've been targeted for continuous surveillance by the government, and that they're surrounded by whole gangs of stalkers who signal each other with apparently innocent gestures like buttoning one's coat, blowing one's nose, or retying one's shoes. I'd imagine that people who regard themselves as "targeted individuals" are made very uncomfortable by such gestures, but does that mean they're entitled to ask a stranger to curtail them? (This came to mind this week because I have a cold and the state of my nose is either stuffed up or runny, so I've been blowing my nose a lot.)

What it comes down to is, first, is the activity directed at you, and second, does it involve someone disregarding your boundaries and feeling entitled to do so? Telling your coworker "You should wear your hair down more often, you look prettier that way"? Creepy. Insistently offering unwanted help with groceries, or repeatedly trying to strike up a conversation with someone who replies with "um"? Creepy. And tbh, I'd argue that by those criteria, asking someone to curtail an innocent activity because you perceive it as directed at you is also creepy.

I really disagree. Creepy behavior is behavior that (a) is directed toward someone personally, (b) violates a boundary in some way, and (c) has an element of presumption and entitlement.

Say you enter a store in the mall from outside, and there's an ice storm in progress and the clerk says "Have they salted the walks yet? This morning I saw three people slip on the ice just getting from the bus to the door!" Not creepy, because the weather isn't a personal topic and the clerk has some legitimate interest in knowing how bad conditions are.

You enter a store in the mall and the clerk says "Wow, you should wear your hair down more often, you look much prettier that way!" Creepy, because it's personal, and it implies that the clerk is entitled to a say in how you wear your hair.

I actually think in some instances (e.g. the one people have discussed here, feeling uncomfortable because someone is writing in a notebook) it's creepy--i.e., presumptuous and entitled--to expect anyone to curtail an innocent behavior that's not directed at you.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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