[ SECRET POST #3325 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3325 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 027 secrets from Secret Submission Post #475.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Intriguing. Care to elaborate on the difference?

[(Anonymous)]

Broadly, women's sexual desires and tastes aren't valued as much or aren't considered as powerful (or threatening) as men's. Men lusting after women = expected, powerful, scary, women lusting after women = broken or just dismissable.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a bisexual woman, and it's like you and I aren't even living in the same reality.

[(Anonymous)]

That doesn't argue for a fundamental difference. It argues for the exact opposite! It argues that the construction and enactment of desire are different because of societal conditioning but the basic character of desire is the same.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, have you MET people? You seem like you're typing this from a planet where there's no individuality.

[philstar22]

I would say that men often express a creepy possessiveness along with their attraction. Like they own the body of the woman they are attracted to and they have a right to her body and to look at it whether she wants it or not. Not always, though. And sometimes I've heard something similar from women. Just less fequently.

[(Anonymous)]

And making generalizations based on gender is not sexist at all.

[philstar22]

I very clearly didn't say all men, so not a generalization.

[(Anonymous)]

Men do X often.

Women do X less frequently.

How is that not a generalization?

[philstar22]

A generalization is when you say "group X always does Y" or "All group X does Y" without qualifying it. I qualified it. Not all men act that way, but most men do.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

It's a generalization, it's just a qualified generalization (and a well-founded one).

Where AYRT is going wrong is saying that any generalization is wrong and prejudiced. This isn't the case.

[(Anonymous)]

any generalization is wrong and prejudiced

Where did I say that? I said that philstar was making a generalization based on gender. Which I thought was what feminism was against.

[philstar22]

Feminism is against oppression based on gender. Feminism is against saying gender stereotypes are inherent and that every woman or man has to fit them. Feminism isn't against saying there are trends and ways that on average many or most members of a particular gender act. Feminism, at least as far as I know, wouldn't say there aren't trends, it would look to the root of those trends and the problems with them. But feminism doesn't say there aren't certain things that are on average more true of one gender or another.

[(Anonymous)]

And all this time I thought it was about equal rights.

[philstar22]

It is. What do generalizations have to do with equal rights unless they are telling people that they have to act a certain way or that all men or women act a certain way?

[(Anonymous)]

generalization
Logic.
a proposition asserting something to be true either of all members of a certain class or of an indefinite part of that class.

Semantics aside, I'm a woman, and I am absolutely calling you out on reinforcing gender stereotypes when you make statements like the one above.

[(Anonymous)]

But - again, not to be a pedant here, but I think it's a really important point - that's not a difference between male sexuality and female sexuality qua sexuality. It's a difference in the way that those sexualities are expressed, which is a function of socialization.

And the reason I think that distinction is important is because it impinges on the question of whether it's possible to have a male sexuality which isn't implicated in those things. Which I think is something that more or less all of us would be interested in existing.

[philstar22]

I completely agree with that. It is socialization, not inherent. But it is a factor in how people are going to react to someone's expression of their sexual attraction. And the way men often express their sexual desire makes me more uncomfortable than the way woman do it most often.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, I haven't a word of argument with that. i'm just saying the way it's talked about matters.

[(Anonymous)]

There's no gender difference in that at all. Some PEOPLE express creepy possessiveness. As someone who dates women I can guarantee women do it just as often as men.

[(Anonymous)]

... I have almost only ever seen female fans lose their shits and going on to spew hate, even going so far as to send threats, when a male celebrity they like gets a girlfriend or, god forbid, marries. So I don't buy this "most men are so possessive if they wanna duck someone, women aren't" at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Ever been to 4chan or IMDB? Bring up Ariel Winter's recent breast reduction surgery on those places, I'm sure that'll wake you up.

[(Anonymous)]

You apparently can read, so I'm sure you know the meaning of the word "almost". And do you seriously think that women don't do the exact same thing?

And the fact remains that there are a lot of female fans who harrass their favourite male celebrities' girlfriends or wives. Much, much more than male fans who harrass their female celeb crush's boyfriends.

[(Anonymous)]

That sounds a lot like an internalized misogyny flag to me - turning around and hating the women in a crush's life rather than pointing negative feelings at the crush himself. A man is more likely to direct his possessiveness immediately at the object of his affections.

I don't think it's off the mark to say that women and men are socialized to express sexual desires in different ways.

[(Anonymous)]

HAHAHAHAHA most en are creepy possessive in expressing their sexuality but the vast majority of women are angels.

It's funny, because I don't see men sending death threats to their celebrity crush's boyfriend. Women, on the other hand...

But yeah yeah, men are evil and creepy.