[ SECRET POST #3342 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3342 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 081 secrets from Secret Submission Post #478.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random meme ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

well, I don't think it's going to change your mind if I tell you that's profoundly dehumanizing and wrong, but it is.

[(Anonymous)]

If they do that to real people, certainly. If it's limited to fictional characters then it's not so bad, but from the gleeful tone they take at so bravely defying the intent of webcomics for self-gratification, they don't sound like they care much about the real people either.

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. They're saying that trans stories aren't trans stories, they're actually gay stories. That's pretty incontrovertibly fucked up to me whatever else they do.

Like, it's not even presented as a headcanon - it doesn't even have that shred of justification - it's just "trans people don't exist."

[(Anonymous)]

Well... no. They're saying they are personally incapable of seeing trans stories as trans stories, while acknowledging that they are meant to be trans stories. That's bad, I'm not disagreeing with you there, but to say OP is claiming real trans people don't exist is a stretch.

[(Anonymous)]

That is like... the most generous reading possible. like, generous to a degree that i just find it completely implausible.

like, if nothing else, there's nothing in the secret that really speaks to the idea that they're meant to be trans stories, or to the idea that OP considers their incapability as a bad thing.

[(Anonymous)]

" there's nothing in the secret that really speaks to the idea that they're meant to be trans stories"

But OP calls them "trans characters" and "trans women". OP is acknowledging the author's intent.

"there's nothing in the secret that really speaks to... the idea that OP considers their incapability as a bad thing"

Yeah. That's the bad part. They gleefully ignore the author's intent. But making that out to be OP claiming that real trans people don't exist is like saying someone gleefully choosing to read a gay character as straight is claiming that "real gay people" don't exist.

It's bad, but it's not quite the same, and saying it's something other than it is dilutes the argument.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I didn't say (or didn't mean to say) that they were denying trans people exist. I meant to say that they were denying that trans characters exist. Which I think is the effect of what they're saying and doing, even if it's not something that they would explicitly say. And I do think that if you follow the logic of what they're saying and thinking, that is the path you are going to be lead down.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe I'm more familiar with the behavior of intentfully misreading canons, idk. I see this happen all the time with people willfully misreading sexualities because they don't like the idea of certain characters being gay or prefer "straight versions" of them and while yeah, it's homophobic, I wouldn't call it erasing real people or denying they exist, unless they're going around insisting that their version is canon and other people should agree. Which I have also seen.

OP isn't doing that. They're doing the lesser evil of choosing to interpret things their own transphobic way.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not like it can be changed easily. I'll admit that if someone looks like a man I'm going to think of them as a man, I can't see them as women. I know it's wrong and I wish I could change it but I can't.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know if you're OP or not. But most of what bothered me about OP's secret was that they didn't show any sign whatsoever of acknowledging that it was wrong or that they wished they could change. It came across like they were really happy about it.

[(Anonymous)]

even if it's autobiographical, it's not really harming anyone

imo it's kinda like rpf or sex fantasties about real people, kinda creepy if the person in question knows about it, but doesn't do any damage if they're kept outta the loop

[(Anonymous)]

it's a fucked up way to think whether or not it harms anyone. i'm not saying that we should make it illegal, but it's not the right way to think.

[(Anonymous)]

How so?

[(Anonymous)]

Trans women characters aren't men and their relationships aren't M/M relationships.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with that trans women aren't men and this relationship isn't M/M, but what's harmful about it if the person acknowledges it's a fantasy?

[(Anonymous)]

If they acknowledge it's a fantasy, I don't have a problem. OP didn't.

[(Anonymous)]

It's probably better that we don't get into thoughtcrime territory. If you start going "that's not the right way to think" that gets a little creepy for my taste.

OP can fap to what they want to and they can think of it however they want to. As long as they're keeping it in their own head it's really not anyone's business (and yeah, I realize they made a secret and put it here, but it's all anon and they're not saying it as themselves, so I don't have so much of a problem with it).

[diet_poison]

I see where people are coming from though - thinking "this trans man is actually a woman" has a tendency to bleed over into how they treat actual people. Just knowing people have that attitude about them can be really hurtful.

I certainly wouldn't advocate calling it "thought crime" but I don't think that's really what's going on in this thread?

[(Anonymous)]

but it's not the right way to think.

That's really the part I was objecting to. I have a really strong aversion to telling people "don't think that," it comes off as creepy and controlling to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, it's wrong, you shouldn't think things are wrong. I don't think you should think that the moon is made of cheese, either. Sorry if this comes off as controlling.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. A friend of mine doesn't believe any of the gender stuff (his argument generally boils down to "what makes a man a man, or a woman a woman?" and he's basically never gotten a straight answer), so by proxy doesn't really believe that transgenderism is a thing, but he still treats people with respect and uses whatever pronouns they want and stuff. You can have your beliefs and not be an asshole. They're not mutually exclusive.

[(Anonymous)]

If there's no good answer to "what makes a man a man, or a woman a woman?" then cis gender is also not a thing and your friend is not a real man either, on accoutn of there being nothing that makes him one.

[(Anonymous)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y36x3YKH7gY

Marc Almond singing "What Makes A Man A Man" by Charles Aznavour.

[(Anonymous)]

If you're going to try and argue that something a person does entirely in their own heads that you wouldn't know about unless they told you is somehow harmful to anyone, then that's a tough row to hoe, nonny.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't say it was harmful, I said that it was dehumanizing and wrong, and I stand by that.