[ SECRET POST #3356 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3356 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 093 secrets from Secret Submission Post #480.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It's kind of an open secret in the Outsiders fandom that she's read fanfic of that book.

I'm not surprised she likes male-bonding stories. Her stories all revolve around boys trying to find themselves in the world they live in, and their relationships with friends and brothers (or as good as, as in That Was Then, This Is Now between Mark and Bryon). (granted, they're all from the 1960s and 1970s when female protagonists were culturally not as accepted to the degree they are today, but still.)

Anyway I don't see what's wrong with what she likes or doesn't like! Problematic? S.E. Hinton? Pshaw. It's not like JK Rowling who managed to put her foot in it really hard recently.

[philstar22]

What did Rowling say? I missed it.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but I'm guessing ayrt is referring to JK Rowling using Native American mythology and lore in her new Harry Potter stuff. She's been accused of appropriating Native American spirituality.

[philstar22]

Ah, okay, I haven't been looking at any of the new stuff so I missed that.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

(A) Messed up about First Nations/Indian magic in North America (basically skinwalkers are a HUGE DEAL and she's basically appropriated the legends as happy cool fun times)
(B) Completely glossed over the very real history of racial conflict in Africa in the 1800s by insisting that everybody was in peace and harmony in the magical communities of that era. Never mind that the canonical structure of magical society in the UK alone in the 1990s reveals that a significant fraction would likely have been considerably racist and exclusivist towards nonwhite people of uncertain magical parentage. Hell, there's only one Muggleborn Minister for Magic and that was dated to the 1960s.

[philstar22]

Oh. No. Wow. I missed all that because I haven't looked at any of the new stuff. That is pretty bad.

[(Anonymous)]

*eyeroll* No, not really.

[(Anonymous)]

...wait, we can't use skinwalkers now without bringing down the wrath of SJWs now?

[feotakahari]

Rowling stated on Twitter that skinwalkers in this setting were made up as part of a campaign of prejudice against magic-users. Apparently this offended people who believe skinwalkers exist. (Though honestly, I'm not sure why that's a bigger deal than offending Bigfoot believers or UFO believers. Apparently people are claiming that it's a "religious" belief for some reason?)

Edit: to be clear, I still think the article as a whole was terribly written.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, it is a religious belief for the Navajo. Which is why comparing it to believing in Bigfoot or UFOs is hugely insulting, BTW.

It's more like telling Christians that Jesus didn't perform any miracles or Muslims that Mohammed would be cool with having his portrait done.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the operative words here may be in this setting, and maybe that's why she thought she'd get away with it.

Though the idea that Jesus didn't do any miracles and was a charlatan of the highest order is pervasive enough anymore that it rolls right off this Christian's back. No sense getting mad about it; it doesn't affect me or my faith.

[(Anonymous)]

Though the idea that Jesus didn't do any miracles and was a charlatan of the highest order is pervasive enough anymore that it rolls right off this Christian's back.

+1. I hear this all the time. And yes, it doesn't really matter to me, they can believe what they want, and I can believe what I want. I'd rather not get into fights over religion, as there's been entirely too much of that throughout history.

[(Anonymous)]

And no doubt there are some Navajos who don't care about Rowling using the skinwalker stories. But that doesn't change the fact that when you start taking peoples' religions and playing with it for your fictional world, you're likely to step on feelings.

[feotakahari]

There's a difference between believing in God and believing in demons and angels acting among humanity, if only because one's a lot more of a threat for the folks who're suspected of possession. (To be fair, I don't hear about people being beaten or murdered because they're suspected of being skinwalkers.)

[(Anonymous)]

...you can believe in angels and demons acting among humanity without being a wild-eyed zealot and being all BURN THE WITCH about it. In fact, I daresay there are more of the quiet kind like that then there are zealots. The zealots just make the news.

The Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne has Jesus being part of a vast pantheon. I don't get my panties in a twist about it, because if I got my panties in a twist about every little thing that writers get wrong about my religion, I'd spend my life in a state of perpetual rage. I don't have the time, inclination, or energy for that.

[(Anonymous)]

See, I think the actual sin she's committing is that really, really common one of lumping all Native American cultures into one big homogeneous mass.

Yes, the Navajo believed, and many still do, in skinwalkers. But that was just a Navajo thing. If you asked the Algonquin, the Huron, the Cheyenne, the Ohlone, the [insert literally a thousand other names here] if they were scared of skinwalkers, you'd get a blank look. Maybe the Pima or Anasazi, since they were pretty close to the Navajo so they would've shared more folklore.

It's like saying that Italians were worried about kelpies or Greeks were all on the lookout for banshees, because hey, they're all European, right?

[(Anonymous)]

...wait, we can't use skinwalkers in a really insensitive, thoughtless way without doing more than minimal lazy research now without bringing down the wrath of SJWs now?


FTFY.

[(Anonymous)]

Wouldn't it be significantly more racist if there were no native wizards? Or if they just used the same techniques as white people? I mean I get that the there are no racist wizards stuff is messed up but the first argument makes no sense to me.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's more about the way she's taking native customs/religious beliefs and claiming them as her own (like, applying her own fictional-world reasons to real beliefs) instead of it being about native wizards existing at all?

It does seem a bit iffy to me, tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

But the intire wizarding world is just this world with wizard sprinkles. Including other religions and traditions.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the main issue with this specifically is that it's really rare for native traditions & shit to be focused on in mainstream media (especially when it's written by them, ie: when it's 100% accurate & they're in total control over what's being put out), so it makes sense to me that people will be more bothered by some white woman from England twisting their shit around than they would be otherwise?

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt, which is exactly why I wouldn't write about anyone's culture other than my own. I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing, but the prevailing mood of the day is that everyone should stay inside their own box.

[(Anonymous)]

And I will continue to think that the idea of us never stepping outside our boxes is stupid and hidebound and problematic all by itself. The mood of the day is not actually helping anyone.

[(Anonymous)]

You left out the part where the offended tried to bully her into apologizing and rewriting her work.

[(Anonymous)]

I've suspected for a long time that "muggle" is just as derogatory as the n word is in the real world. Now I'm sure of it.