fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3367 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3367 ⌋

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I guess what I'm saying is "wonderful, energetic lecture" is a subjective statement and a lot of people don't really enjoy lectures. In fact many people find them really, really boring especially if they're processing information at a different rate (either slower or faster) than the rate at which it's being presented to them. I found that when I was in class I had to do something to occupy my mind in between recording bits of information or else my mind would simply wander away and I had no hope of absorbing any of it at all.

That's not to say I was always responsible about doing it that way, either; I was a fairly terrible student. But when I did actually intend to absorb information it was still usually with a mindless flash game on the side. If I didn't or couldn't have my laptop out, I was doodling in the margins of my notes, almost invariably, or writing/drawing something on another piece of paper.

When you talk about giving a lecture to a room full of people in college, unless it's a 400 level class or something, there's a very good chance that many of them don't actually want to be there. They're paying money, either out of pocket or through loans which is even worse, for a degree that society tells them they have to have to be successful but which they aren't personally that invested in getting, and they're trying to get through it in the best way that they can. I know I took most of my notes on my laptop because it was faster and easier to organize them and it didn't make my wrist hurt. I know I yawned a lot because I was tired, not necessarily bored (and sometimes both), and it was almost never about the professor anyway; it really almost never is. People who don't want to be there aren't trying to stick it to the professor, they're just trying to get through.

mindless flash game on the side. If I didn't or couldn't have my laptop out, I was doodling in the margins of my notes, almost invariably, or writing/drawing something on another piece of paper.

First of all these are two very different activities. Nobody's judging someone who doodles.

Second of all, I sit in a place where I can see people's laptops. It's facebook and espn, not "mindless flash games." And if someone's playing a mindless flash game instead of taking notes (and then complaining to me about your C), that's actually a problem.

I've actually had people ask me for notes--that is, literally asking their TA to do their work for them.

Thirdly, responsibility requires doing a hell of a lot of things you don't enjoy doing in places you don't want to be. You don't get to be a jerk while doing them. They don't get to be talking loudly to the person next to you without getting judged for it. They don't get to be watching ESPN because it's just too hard to actually try for a goddamn minute. Nobody made them sign up for History 10whatever. There are multiple ways to fill the same requirement at my university.

This isn't doodling on the side I'm talking about. I can see their laptops. They aren't switching to notes.

Edited 2016-03-26 20:13 (UTC)

I get where you're coming from but I still feel you're mashing up students who need something like that to concentrate at all with those who aren't trying. Especially since you're taking what I said about playing a flash game while taking notes and responded with "playing a flash game INSTEAD of taking notes" and then complaining about people who asked the TA for notes and shit. And frankly I think it's hard to definitively say a student is "being a jerk" - I guess I don't see why you are personally offended when someone isn't paying attention since you're not the prof and the prof presumably can't see what they're doing as clearly? Even then, unless they're being a disruption to other students, I don't see it as being offensive. Profs who take that kind of thing personally strike me as being really conceited. Students don't go to school because of the profs, they go because they have to, as I explained before. The profs are the ones making money out of the students' pockets (I get that they're not rich and much of the huge amount that students pay doesn't make its way to the profs, but still) and the students are there to learn not as a hobby and not for the sake of the professor.

Nobody made them sign up for History 10whatever. There are multiple ways to fill the same requirement at my university.

Ah...therein my lie the rub. Where I went everyone - EVERYONE - had to take History 150. And even having taken the World History AP with a 5 didn't get you out of it. (There was $80 down the drain.) And that class was boring as fuck. It covered less material than my high school WHAP class and I learned way less and it was way more boring.

"being a jerk"

You've got to understand--what I'm talking about isn't a quiet comment to the person next to you. I'm talking about flagrant taking out a phone or conversations loud enough that I can hear them down the row. That is rude, because you'd have to think the prof is a robot not to notice. And I've had people do that in my classes that I teach as well. Luckily those are smaller so I can actually call them out. It's hard to do that in a lecture hall.

and the students are there to learn not as a hobby and not for the sake of the professor.

But it's still rude. I'm not talking about "how dare they not be really into [history topic] because of course not everybody is! I don't hate students who don't try on their work. They just get crappy grades and I move on, nothing personal.

I'm talking about being blatantly inconsiderate. I don't care if it's the most boring lecture in the world, your teacher's a human and you should be nice. Seeing someone actually doing a good job and being treated the same way is demoralizing, but I don't think the boring drone-er deserves any less than politeness.

and the students are there to learn not as a hobby and not for the sake of the professor.

I think maybe you just don't understand? Because you actually try! It's really easy to think everyone's like that. And it might just be that the culture at my university's toxic; people at your college might have been better. When I complain about ESPN, I'm not talking about someone checking scores quick. I think that's normal, especially during March Madness. I'm not going to assume someone's a jerk for doing that. I'm talking about someone with the game on, full screen, and never taking notes. I've sat behind people like that multiple times. I would never have assumed except... there it is.

People in classes I've worked for have told their TAs that they spend the entire class shopping. And we grade the work! They're not just telling their friends, they're telling us! Think about it this way: it's not that they're goofing off. People will always do that. It's that they don't even think to hide it. They don't care enough to even pretend they care.

Edited 2016-03-29 03:21 (UTC)

I need to be more clear. I DIDN'T always try. I was in a very bad place during much of college. I lost all my motivation. I would have dropped out except for (partly self-imposed) social pressure and the desire to not have the money I'd already poured into it go completely to waste.

I got my degree by the skin of my teeth despite being a person of above-average intelligence. And I am so, so, so glad to not be in school anymore. Like every time I think about it I'm glad. And my degree helped me get a job that I care about and apply myself to and feel pretty good about having at this stage of my life. But while I was there I did not feel good about what I was doing at all.

So I hope you don't think I'm a lazy asshole, but if you do...oh well I guess. It's a lot more complicated than being a lazy asshole if you're not trying.

I do fully agree that causing a disruption that's distracting to the prof or to other students is rude and not acceptable but that's not the same thing as quietly doing another activity.

[ SECRET POST #3367 ]

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